Monk mitigation too high?

[Zanti]

Currently we have monks tanking everything from the lowest named up to the spore king and juggernauts and doing it rather well. They can pull quickly and constantly with the instant and broken state of feign death. They hold aggro like champs with the multitude of stun weapons that they receive and they tank nearly just as well or some say better than a proper plate tank. So currently there is no draw back to having a monk tank... its not like taunt functions on anything worthwhile anyway eh?

I know that they were the Kunark dev's wet dream but on live at least they were always out in the zone bringing in mobs while a proper tank helped with the killing as pulling was a more involved process there. The bottom line is that yes monks should be able to tank but should they be mana efficient tanks who are actively sought after over pal/war/sk? I don't think so.

I do not recall if things were this biased towards them on Kunark's launch, they probably were but not everything is worth replicating.

Fire away! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[inyane]

I don't remember monks tanking this well until AA's came out

[wehrmacht]

Originally Posted by inyane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't remember monks tanking this well until AA's came out

The monk nerf didn't happen till end of velious because that's when all the 50ac all/all items appeared and really made monks overpowered. Kunark doesn't really have stuff like that.

I don't remember the exact numbers but this is basically how it works:

Monks in leather gives you a low softcap, something like 100-200ac then everything above that you only get 33% of or so.

Plate classes get like 300-400 ac before softcap affects them.

So the plate classes will have higher real AC (mitigation), but monks have higher avoidance which raises their tank ability back closer to real tanks.

If the monk can tank as good as a knight, it's not really strange. The knights have heals and other things to make up for it while also having higher mitigation and HP which makes them easier to heal while fighting a dragon than a monk which relies more on avoidance.

I've tanked Trakanon on EQ live playing an SK at 60 during Kunark but it would probably be much harder or maybe not doable playing a monk.

Monks should probably tank similar, slightly better, or slightly worse than knights in this era. If you parse it out and they tank better than warriors, then something is probably broken.

It's important to parse it on even cons and borderline blue cons because they could have made an error that causes monk avoidance benefits to scale too high when fighting mobs that are a good bit lower level than you but still con blue and end up having monks tank too good in comparison to warriors in that situation.

I'm not really positive that warriors are guaranteed to tank better than monks on low level blue cons though. The game was pretty much designed around warriors tanking by having lots of HP and receiving Cheals. For sake of balance, I would make it so warriors still did tank better than monks on low blues though.

When I was a 60 monk on Sullon Zek during Velious, pre-monk nerf, I'd attack level 57-58 paladins and warriors (Ramza and Toodles) and I'd block a shitload against them. Then I'd duel a warrior in my guild like Oogly or Tenaj and they would have a much easier time hitting me. So I think it might just be monk avoidance scaling really high against low level blues that you are seeing. The question is, for sake of balance, should it scale to be better than warrior tanking or not.

[Swish]

Playing a cleric I've noticed monks do compare to an average geared tank at least up to the early 30s...whether there's any change after that I don't know.

Do bear in mind the level of twinked to the teeth monks on this server, not all monks back in early Kunark had the luxury of all the gear that the 100s here seem to be running around soloing with.

[mimixownzall]

It's fine. I was tanking for a KC basement group for a while at level 55. Then a 55 warrior came in and took over. He definitely did a better job at mitigating dmg though my gear was probably better than his. I was having to get CH'd once a fight and he could go 2 or 3 mobs and not get a CH. I wasn't overwieght and had close to 1k ac. True, we were killing mobs a little faster, but it wasnt 2 or 3 times faster.

[packmule]

FD is working as intended. most def

[Kanz]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When I was a 60 monk on Sullon Zek during Velious, pre-monk nerf, I'd attack level 57-58 paladins and warriors (Ramza and Toodles) and I'd block a shitload against them. Then I'd duel a warrior in my guild like Oogly or Tenaj and they would have a much easier time hitting me.

Just curious, who are you? Would love if you're the monk who taught me how to pull nToV!

[Slust]

Originally Posted by wehrmacht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The monk nerf didn't happen till end of velious

As I recall, the Monk mitigation nerf didn't happen during Velious (though I do remember the stink it caused).

It wasn't until October 16th, 2002, that this mitigation change happened (according to patch archives).

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/hist...es-2002-2.html

Planes of Power came out October 29th, 2002, so that would put this mitigation nerf just right before PoP launched.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQue...lanes_of_Power

[Torven]

Originally Posted by mimixownzall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wasn't overwieght and had close to 1k ac.

Which is about how much ac tanks in plate have.

I won't pretend to remember how well monks tanked way back when, but as the game is right now, monks are the most overpowered class by a good margin. I've certainly had more than one person tell me their favorite group had a monk in place of a tank class.

Can't wait for the robe nerf.

[soup]

Originally Posted by Torven [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which is about how much ac tanks in plate have.

The plate tanks with similar gear will have much more HP than the monk will have, thus CH is much more efficient.

I've certainly had more than one person tell me their favorite group had a monk in place of a tank class.

This statement is pretty much useless since there are FAR more monks with great gear than tanks with great gear. Damn near everyone has a monk twink, shouldn't be a surprise that people see a lot of monks who can tank. (keep in mind, the term "twink" can be used to reflect on characters even when they're in their 50s)

But I'm sure someone will try and turn that into a circular argument by saying "There's more monks because of how OP they are!"

Can't wait for the robe nerf.

Why does the gear other classes have access to bother you? Why do you want to celebrate someone else getting slapped in the face?

I mean, we shouldn't even see so many fungi robes since the TUNIC should be the common drop at the moment, but whatever.