Everquest's Internal dice mechanic - anyone know?

[TheRusty]

So for a long time I've been working on a project; I want to homebrew up a TTRPG version of EverQuest for my friends. While I know of the D20 TTRPG from 2001, I really feel it's Everquest in name only (and even then only barely)

While I think I can get most of the design done, I have one hurdle; I want the dice system to be as close to "authentic" as possible, but I have no idea how that would actually work.

First hurdle is just, what kind of dice system would it even use? My first thought is simply a percentage / D100 based system, since that has the advantage of being easy and seems to tie in with the /roll command in-game (I would guess that command uses a number string "randomizer" running in the background for all actions in the game, but, idk for certain)

But this is kinda tripped up by the stats themselves; How do you figure 255 Strength, 250 Blacksmithing into a percentile-based system, for example? Does it operate on thresholds, where every three points (or whatever) adds +1 to the potential outcome? It seems a little odd to have numbers like this if that's how it works.

So I guess the question is, does anyone have insights or understanding on how 1999 Era Everquest works "behind the scenes," how it determines outcomes of actions?

[Duik]

Looking at eqemu source code in the various places (fairly well commented) will give insights. Depends how keen you are at scouring c++ source code (or even if you can).

Chances of success in various tradeskills are quite well understood here i believe so maybe check out the tradeskill area here.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics offers some ideas of how shit works.
Others here may have better answers for you.

[Ciderpress]

I don't know anything about coding but there's kind of a common superstition that rng on p99 is "streaky". How you would ever determine that's true VS just really bad or good luck is above my pay grade.

Anecdotally when foraging for the druid epic I did hit a run of like 50+ "roots" in a row, when there are several other items foraging should produce beside the epic piece you're looking for.

[loramin]

I think you're on a doomed quest.

Human beings can only roll so many dice, and those dice can only go up to d20 (or maybe d100, but it's a bit impractical). But computers can roll much larger "dice", ... like say a 255-sided die ... and if necessary they can do so many times just for a single "round" of combat. That's what EQ does.

In other words, trying to copy a computer-based "dice" system for a human RPG system is a fool's errand. Instead, you should either design around weird dice (eg. divide everything by ten, round off, and use a 25-sided die) ... or just adjust for the d20, like every other RPG does.

[Ekco]

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just steal whatever system they used if it doesn't suck, and i assume it's okay because there's like 30 different EQ ttrpg books. someone was buying it, every indie ttrpg dev is always trying to reinvent the wheel, it's d20 or star wars d6 system

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nobody has come up with anything better in 45 years.

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you're on a doomed quest.

Human beings can only roll so many dice, and those dice can only go up to d20 (or maybe d100, but it's a bit impractical). But computers can roll much larger "dice", ... like say a 255-sided die ... and if necessary they can do so many times just for a single "round" of combat. That's what EQ does.

In other words, trying to copy a computer-based "dice" system for a human RPG system is a fool's errand. Instead, you should either design around weird dice (eg. divide everything by ten, round off, and use a 25-sided die) ... or just adjust for the d20, like every other RPG does.

Aren't there only 20 possible "hits" for a particular weapon's damage?

Not disagreeing.

[shovelquest]

AFAIK when you design your character you put stats into it like, what zone you want to start in, what race, what your stats are... and how much luck you'll have.

If you made the luck stat too low, then when you do /random while your avatar is playing "everquest", you get lower scores than someone who dumped a bunch of luck stats in their avatars soul build in heaven before being born.

[Tann]

Originally Posted by TheRusty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But this is kinda tripped up by the stats themselves; How do you figure 255 Strength, 250 Blacksmithing into a percentile-based system, for example? Does it operate on thresholds, where every three points (or whatever) adds +1 to the potential outcome? It seems a little odd to have numbers like this if that's how it works.

have never looked at the source code but it could be as simple as a roll + bonuses to see if it was a success. like how D&D works for chance to hit on an attack (I think), you roll vs the targets AC, then add in any bonuses from your class/gear.. if the result is higher than the targets AC, you hit em!

crafting could be similar, there might be a target number you need to hit in order for the craft to be successful. strength improves success change right? maybe its str over 10, so your target success is 95, roll a D100 + that 255str/10, you could roll as low as 70 on the dice and still succeed with that strength bonus saving you.

again, no idea how they coded EQ but that's how i've been doing it in my silly projects.

Originally Posted by Ciderpress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know anything about coding but there's kind of a common superstition that rng on p99 is "streaky". How you would ever determine that's true VS just really bad or good luck is above my pay grade.

that's how randomness works, streaks and patterns. can flip a coin 100 times and can get streaks of 10, 15, or 20 heads in a row.. or it could be swapping back and forth the hole time.

[Ciderpress]

Originally Posted by Tann [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that's how randomness works, streaks and patterns. can flip a coin 100 times and can get streaks of 10, 15, or 20 heads in a row.. or it could be swapping back and forth the hole time.

Right but there's some consensus that digital rng can never really be truly random. I don't know much more about it than that, I've heard people say it a lot.

It seems like it wouldn't really be that hard to devise a system that appears random and actually isn't. Even if it's 99% random and 1% determined, it would still appear pretty random. So a streak emerging isn't necessarily to be trusted as just being an organic outlier.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Ciderpress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right but there's some consensus that digital rng can never really be truly random. I don't know much more about it than that, I've heard people say it a lot.

It seems like it wouldn't really be that hard to devise a system that appears random and actually isn't. Even if it's 99% random and 1% determined, it would still appear pretty random. So a streak emerging isn't necessarily to be trusted as just being an organic outlier.

Computers can't create a number that is truly random because they can't "roll dice": they have to rely on math and a "seed" number that's non-random (eg. the current time in milliseconds). In theory, if you know the algorithm and the seed you could generate the exact same number a computer generates, which has repercussions for things like cyber security.

However, when it comes to computer games (or just about any other practical application of randomness), computer-generated random numbers are plenty random.