Game Mechanics: CrushboneOrcs faction hits

[isidian]

It looks like most of the orcs have their default hits (which are quite stark), so to help with development I have collected the faction hits for members of CrushboneOrcs from Zam. When these numbers were not available, I got them from live.

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I have reverse engineered the formula on live for faction hits (works without fail for mob kills and quests of all factions):

ROUNDDOWN(ABS(MOB_VALUE * SPLASH)/100)
(minimum 1)

The final amount is then either positive or negative based on the sign of MOB_VALUE*SPLASH

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Here are the SPLASH values for CrushboneOrcs:

Crushbone Orcs: +100
Indigo Brotherhood: +10
Emerald Warriors: -15
Faydark's Champions: -15
Storm Guard: -5

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Here are the MOB_VALUEs for all members of CrushboneOrcs, separated by zone:

Butcherblock Mountains:
orc runner: -50
orc oracle: -5
an orc scoutsman: -2
orc centurion: unknown, probably -5

Crushbone:
Emporer Crush: -200
The Prophet: -100
an orc thaumaturgist: -5
Lord Darish: -5
orc emissary: -5
orc legionnaire: -5
orc taskmaster: -5
orc warlord: unknown, probably -5
orc centurion: -3
orc oracle: -3
an orc centurion: -2
Centurion Relgle: -2
orc trainer: -2
orc pawn: -1
Orc Scoutsman: -1
orc slaver: -1
Orc Warden: -1
royal guard: -1

Dagnor's Cauldron:
an exiled legionnaire: unknown, probably -1
an orc scout: -1

Greater Faydark:
an orc arsonist: -2
an orc conscript: -2
an orc footman: -2
an orc seer: unknown, probably -2
an orc shaman: unknown, probably -2
an orc witchdoctor: -2
Gurleg Bribgok: -2
orc centurion: -2
orc hatchetman: unknown, probably -2
orc oracle: unknown, probably -2
orc shaman: unknown, probably -2
orc pawn: -1

Lesser Faydark:
orc chief: -1 (yes, I checked this myself)
orc legionnaire: -5
orc oracle: -5
orc centurion: -1

Nektulos Forest:
orc runner: unknown, probably -50

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How to use (example):

"You have slain an orc runner!" (MOB_VALUE = -50)

Crushbone Orcs: -ROUNDDOWN(ABS(-50 * 100)/100) = -50
Indigo Brotherhood: -ROUNDDOWN(ABS(-50 * 10)/100) = -5
Emerald Warriors: +ROUNDDOWN(ABS(-50 * -15)/100) = +7
Faydark's Champions: +ROUNDDOWN(ABS(-50 * -15)/100) = +7
Storm Guard: +ROUNDDOWN(ABS(-50 * -5)/100) = +2

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All of the above mobs /con with respect to CrushboneOrcs (this pattern also seems to be universally true -- mobs /con with respect to the splash faction table that they use upon their death. Furthermore, they also /con with respect to the splash faction table that they use for any quests that they give)

I also have the splash numbers for all classic factions but I did not want to post publicly. I have not yet been able to reverse engineer any formula for mob_values (it seems to be zone specific), but I can pass on certain trends that can be identified from the data.

I presented CrushboneOrcs here as an example, and as a way of reaching out to whomever would like this information so that I can funnel them the rest of my notes. Since it takes a lot of time to compile these, I would like to know if the above information is helpful, and if so, in which format would be best to present the rest of the compiled info.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by isidian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It looks like most of the orcs have their default hits (which are quite stark), so to help with development I have collected the faction hits for members of CrushboneOrcs from Zam. When these numbers were not available, I got them from live.

This is great research, and while I certainly don't want to discourage such quality research (and I definitely can't speak for the devs), just keep in mind that neither Zam nor live have "classic(/kunark/velious) era" information. If anything changed with faction at all between Luclin and expansion #120 (or whatever they're on now) then any information from Live/Modern Zam is basically worthless to P99.

For P99 the best web-based sources are the ones from 2001 and before, so if you can find faction values from that time period using the Wayback machine (either from archived Zam pages or anywhere else) they will be MUCH more valuable. (Of course, even those values require a grain of salt, since the players back in '99-'01 didn't have perfect info either.)

Also, while there hasn't been a real version of Velious EQ since ... well since Velious, much of the game (possibly faction?) stayed the same through PoP. Because of this any research you can find from the EQ Mac server, which stopped at PoP, will probably be considered more strongly than research from Live EQ (and because EQ Mac was running until just a few years ago, it may be easier to find info from it).

Now of course some things haven't changed, and live might still have valuable info in some cases (and maybe Crushbone faction is one of those cases?) But because the devs have already put a great deal of effort into the current P99 faction values they'll likely need more evidence than just "these values are different on live" before they change them.

[isidian]

There are definitely differences on live. I killed a couple Deathfist Pawns on live and there were no faction hits at all. I also killed a rat in the yard and got a piece of armor more powerful than classic raid gear. This is why I don't play on live.

Yet, if the burden of proof is set too high, then it will be impossible to get the classic numeric values. They weren't available historically, so the wayback machine cannot reclaim them, except in rare cases where anecdotal evidence is available. To believe the faction numbers above requires some trust that the core mechanic has been largely untampered with.

You mention research using EQmac, but isn't EQmac toast?

[Aalderon Crystafire]

Unless we have evidence that a faction was altered then we tend to move towards using the current Live values as much as possible. Particularly with old world factions they were rarely tampered with and when they were it occurred early on like with Kerra vs Kerra Isle.