question on effectiveness of hybrid tanks in kunark

[Folksie]

Hi all,

Just been reading a very interesting thread on wars versus hybrid tanks in classic and beyond: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9237

My question is this. My main is chanter but I'd like to play an alt into the 50's with Kunark if poss and would like that alt to be a MA type tank. I'm assuming the agro problems of low-level warriors at present will go away and in any case can live with that, so really i care about tanking in the 50-60 range.

So, bearing that in mind, I'm wondering for those who played in Kunark era, as tanks and especially as healers, was there a noticeable difference between durability of warriors vs hybrid tanks? Did it take a lot more mana to heal the bybrid tanks? Also, far less crucially, just how big is gap in dps and did it make any difference to group effectiveness.

I'm assuming obviously similar gear/playing skill. Also I personally care about the 'role' in group more than the class (I want to be MA); so the distinctions of whether that's done with procs/taunt or spells doesn't matter much to me, and nor does utility of invis/ivu/fd etc. Also I doubt I'll raid with the char, just want to enjoy grouping to 60, so input on raids is appreciated but would especially like to know about group dynamics.

Edit: Also one additional question: in Kunark era what % of time did MA pull? I realise it varies with group/camp but in my memories playing cleric in old seb, it was always tank pulling. This would be great as I enjoy that side of game, so just wondering how frequently that happens.

Cheers,

Folksie

[Messianic]

For group encounters, it really depends on which encounter you're facing. Sometimes a paladin or SK tank really is a better option. Sometimes you've got such a good group composition (i.e. Chanter, Cleric, Warrior, shaman, + two hardcore dps, etc - or one of the other great composition combos) that it really won't make a difference and having as beefy a tank as possible (i.e. a well-equipped, dual proc-wielding warrior) is better.

And if you've got a paladin or SK who knows how to use his periphery skills, or a warrior who's so fast on the taunt button or so quick at peeling from healers/etc, that player's skill (defined as attentiveness, knowledge of class skills and other class' skills and how to react to the situation at hand) will override the advantage of having the more "ideal" tank class for the encounter.

Just play whichever tank class you think will be most enjoyable to you in the long run.

[guineapig]

It's only on raid bosses where you start seeing a huge difference in damage mitigation and I think it will be more important with Velious bosses than most of the Kunark bosses.

[Extunarian]

Originally Posted by Folksie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the distinctions of whether that's done with procs/taunt or spells doesn't matter much to me, and nor does utility of invis/ivu/fd etc. Also I doubt I'll raid with the char, just want to enjoy grouping to 60.

If you don't care about utility then play a warrior. The reason you play a knight is because you want to be warrior-ish but have all those neat utility spells.

However, I think if you are really looking to play the 6-person group game you may want to play a class that has more at its disposal even if it takes a durability hit. Sure there are things you can do with mob placement and the like but for the most part as a warrior you're autoattacking, kicking and hoping for procs. Also, remember that taunt mechanics don't get fixed for quite some time yet, so warriors will still be unable to get agro at will on yellow and red cons.

Originally Posted by Folksie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Edit: Also one additional question: in Kunark era what % of time did MA pull?

Someone will disagree with me, but in most pickup group situations I prefer someone with pulling utility to be the puller. Harmony, FD, or some other way to pull in a managed way. More importantly I don't want the main tank pulling because then the group has to wait until the last mob is dead before he can corral some more. No one wants to fight for 10 seconds then wait 30 seconds for the next mob.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Extunarian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Someone will disagree with me, but in most pickup group situations I prefer someone with pulling utility to be the puller. Harmony, FD, or some other way to pull in a managed way. More importantly I don't want the main tank pulling because then the group has to wait until the last mob is dead before he can corral some more. No one wants to fight for 10 seconds then wait 30 seconds for the next mob.

This was pretty true. Main tanks made lousy pullers for really good exp groups unless they were just picking off single mobs that were returning from an FD pull.

Sometimes we had really good chanters pulling, even when I was a monk in the group. It was just faster to have me beating crap up and letting him tash pull and deal with adds than worry about exerting too much control over the pull (esp in velks when pulls were scarce anyway). If a dangerous pull became necessary, i'd take care of that.

[Folksie]

Originally Posted by Extunarian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you don't care about utility then play a warrior. The reason you play a knight is because you want to be warrior-ish but have all those neat utility spells.

However, I think if you are really looking to play the 6-person group game you may want to play a class that has more at its disposal even if it takes a durability hit. Sure there are things you can do with mob placement and the like but for the most part as a warrior you're autoattacking, kicking and hoping for procs. Also, remember that taunt mechanics don't get fixed for quite some time yet, so warriors will still be unable to get agro at will on yellow and red cons.

Thankyou for answer Extun.

So you'd say, even levelling 56-60, a reasonably geared paladin won't need that much more healing than a tank? And will be able to handle the tougher named's that one gets doing pickup groups in old seb/karnos or whatever?

I think that's the crux of what I want to get at, I would quite enjoy tossing in roots/stuns on mobs as pally, but also don't want to worry about being mana-sponge for clerics in endgame.

[Extunarian]

Originally Posted by Folksie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would quite enjoy tossing in roots/stuns on mobs as pally, but also don't want to worry about being mana-sponge for clerics in endgame.

Obviously we don't know exactly how everything will be tuned here, but I think a pally or sk would not have anything to worry about for any groupable content. Tanking is a big part of their class and they can hold up just fine. Lets face it, tanks are a bit harder to come by on this server and any cleric is going to be happy to drop cheals on a pally or sk because it means the ranger and monk aren't tanking.

Not only is the survivability difference negligible in a group context, but any talk of a pally not being the 'ideal' tank in a PUG will come to a halt as soon as you save the group with a well-timed LoH on the chanter or cleric. Same goes for the SK who HT's down that nasty caster add before it nukes the cleric to oblivion.

[milsorgen]

So, bearing that in mind, I'm wondering for those who played in Kunark era, as tanks and especially as healers, was there a noticeable difference between durability of warriors vs hybrid tanks? Did it take a lot more mana to heal the bybrid tanks? Also, far less crucially, just how big is gap in dps and did it make any difference to group effectiveness.

As a warrior I played a bit of Kunark mostly outside and inside of KC, and while outside I could get away grouping with a hybrid or pairing up with my buddies mage, inside was a different story and generally a warrior was called upon to tank in most circumstances. Now I can't relate as to the durability vs as I never played a hybrid in the area but there was a definite push to have a well formed group as defined by standard roles.

[Extunarian]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sometimes we had really good chanters pulling, even when I was a monk in the group.

This is very true. If the healers are OK with it I love pulling with my chanter...have the mobs tashed, debuffed, mezzed, lined up and ready to have DPS applied at the group's earliest convenience.

[Bubbles]

Evasive and Defensive are pretty awe-inspriing and have quick reuse times (like 7 and 10mins?).. It starts to separate the warrior from the pack in terms of mitigation.. Of course, quick and reliable aggro-generation still is another story.