Group experience doesn't work right

[Buttcheeks]

It seems like the higher level characters in a group get more exp per kill than the lower level. The higher level actually levels faster than the lower character! That doesn't seem right... I think that the lower level character should see more movement in their exp bar than the higher level character, so they can naturally catch up to their higher level friends when grouping with them. It seems to be the opposite now, even if the higher level character has an exp penalty.

I read a thread about how exp is divvied up according to total experience points, which someone with an exp penalty has more of. That explains why my friends who're Shadowknights and Paladins fill their exp bars faster than I do, even though they're already higher level. I don't remember it being like this in Classic, but regardless, I would love for it to be changed.

Thanks for the server, though!!

[Caridry]

Originally Posted by Buttcheeks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I read a thread about how exp is divvied up according to total experience points, which someone with an exp penalty has more of. That explains why my friends who're Shadowknights and Paladins fill their exp bars faster than I do, even though they're already higher level. I don't remember it being like this in Classic, but regardless, I would love for it to be changed.

pretty much answered your own question, it already pretty much works in the way of the lower the person gets the better xp.

ex. take 5 humans clerics in a group. lvls 1 2 3 4 5, the lowest will gain xp faster than the 5, but say you have 4 human clerics and a lvl 5 bard with 40% xp penalty. The penalty gets split throughout the group, which takes the burden off the bard which allows him to xp faster/and the others slower.

Make sense?

[Harmonium]

Originally Posted by Caridry [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

pretty much answered your own question, it already pretty much works in the way of the lower the person gets the better xp.

ex. take 5 humans clerics in a group. lvls 1 2 3 4 5, the lowest will gain xp faster than the 5, but say you have 4 human clerics and a lvl 5 bard with 40% xp penalty. The penalty gets split throughout the group, which takes the burden off the bard which allows him to xp faster/and the others slower.

Make sense?

I think you worded that in a round-about way. Or i'm reading it wrong.

Originally Posted by Dumesh Uhl'Belk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Draft 1.0 - More math to follow. I reached my limit for dealing with this question for tonight

How XP works

First, I'll describe a sample party and use a tasty pie analogy to help make the mechanics easier to understand. Then, I'll get more number and formula based for those who want the nuts and bolts. (coming soon... when I feel like updating)

Think of each mob that gets spawned in EQ as a pie, a very tasty pie.

When a PC kills a mob, he gets to eat the pie.

When players group together and kill a mob, they have to split the pie. However, through the magic of the group bonus, for each person in the group beyond the first, the pie gets a little bit bigger (2% bigger in fact) before we pull out the knife to divide the slices.

Well, how do we slice the pie? How big will each slice be?

The answer is that we measure all the pie that each player has ever eaten (his total xp). Then we cut the slices in proportions matching those relative values. So, let's say our sample group is a simple trio of Bob the Bard, Chris the Enchanter, and Diane the Druid. Since Bob came into the world of Norrath, he's eaten 150lbs of pie. Chris has had 100lbs of pie, and Diane has also eaten 100lbs of pie. Our sample group has just killed a mob. This mobs' representative pie magically grows to be 4% larger than if a solo player killed him. Then the pie is split with 3/7 of it going to Bob, 2/7 to Chris and 2/7 to Diane. The classes of these characters makes no difference at all. The only thing that determined how big each slice of the pie would be was the net total xp that each of them had earned since character creation.

But what about xp penalties, you say?

They most certainly exist. The penalties change the amount of pie that a PC has to eat to gain each level. Human warriors have to eat 90% of the pie that Human Druids have to eat to level up. Troll Shadow Knights have to eat 68% more pie than Human Druids to level up.

The important and painfully obvious consequence of this is:

A level 30 Human Monk has 20% more total xp than a level 30 human cleric.

A level 50 Ogre Shadowknight has 60% more total xp than a level 50 dwarf cleric.

Or to look at it a different way...

A human monk with 10,000,000xp is level 20.

A halfling warrior with 10,000,000xp is level 22

A troll shadowknight with 10,000,000xp is level 18

If the three characters above where to group together, they would all get equal slices of the pie.

But, But, you didn't say anything about the penalties when you talked about how xp is split!!! why not?

When the tasty pie is cut into slices for the group, the levels of the various PCs are not consulted (not directly anyway), only the xp totals for the PCs. The game code doesn't care if Bob is a human or an elf, a bard or a monk, level 10 or level 15... the game code only cares what Bob's total xp is.

What about zone modifiers?

Zone modifiers shrink or expand the pie before the slices are cut.

What does this all mean?!?

1. Group with people who have similar xp totals to you

2. Group with people who have similar xp totals to you

3. Group with people who have similar xp totals to you

See, it was so important, I had to say it 3 times. Please note what that really means. Race/Class combos with no penalty but who are 6 levels higher than you nerf your xp more than the hybrid who is the same level as you in most cases, especially at levels below 30. In your teens, a player 6 levels higher than you has 300 to 400% of your xp total... obviously much worse than the 140-168% of your total that a equal level hybrid has.

So, final thought...

Group with good players. An equal level group with multiple hybrids generally takes no more than 16% more kills to gain a level that a similarly leveled group that has no hydrids. Good groups kill at least 16% faster than bad groups. So, group with good players regardless of class.

[Telron]

I think the concept is that a higher level character is contributing more (in theory) by damage and therefore takes a bigger chunk of the reward. The system basically combines XP Totals and avgs the ammount to split the XP equaly based on the groups TOTAL xp.

Idealy group with people within similar level. Regardless of class. Dont expect to be able to be piggy backed into a high lvl zone and level quickly either. It wont work. : )

EDIT: That isnt to say you wont get any xp. It will jsut be quicker if you group in areas with ppl similar level and appropriate mob lvl.

[Kender]

Originally Posted by Caridry [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ex. take 5 humans clerics in a group. lvls 1 2 3 4 5, the lowest will gain xp faster than the 5, but say you have 4 human clerics and a lvl 5 bard with 40% xp penalty. The penalty gets split throughout the group, which takes the burden off the bard which allows him to xp faster/and the others slower.

Make sense?

the level 1 and 2 wouldn't get any xp as you can only get xp if the highest level in group is not more than 1.5 times your level. Can't remember if it's rounded up though so the level 3 might not either


the higher levels will not be filling their bar up faster. they gain a higher portion based on their level. on a raw numbers level they gain more. on a percentage level everyone gains the same.

Everyone in the group regardless of level or xp penalties (providing you adhere to the 1.5 times rule above) will all gain the same % through their current level.

The only way to catch someone is to either play more than them, or have them power level you.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Kender [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the level 1 and 2 wouldn't get any xp as you can only get xp if the highest level in group is not more than 1.5 times your level. Can't remember if it's rounded up though so the level 3 might not either

At the lower levels there is a 4 or 5 level range that you can group with others.

[Caridry]

ROFL it was an example! ok ok replace it with 25 26 27 28 29!

[mwatt]

Something else worth noting, OP -

The theme of the server is to come as close to the way that EQ worked in the "classic" time frame. There will likely be more things you notice that you would rather have work differently or "more sensibly" - we've all felt that from time to time. However, one needs to bear in mind that if this is the way experience worked then, this is the way it should and most likely will work now. The same will hold true for other things that don't seem right or are part of nerfs that seemingly don't make sense to implement because they were eventually reversed.

[Kers]

this line explains what you're asking about i think:

But, But, you didn't say anything about the penalties when you talked about how xp is split!!! why not?

When the tasty pie is cut into slices for the group, the levels of the various PCs are not consulted (not directly anyway), only the xp totals for the PCs. The game code doesn't care if Bob is a human or an elf, a bard or a monk, level 10 or level 15... the game code only cares what Bob's total xp is.

[Acrux Bcrux]

Originally Posted by Buttcheeks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

who're Shadowknights and Paladins

Exactly