Game Mechanics: ClassicQuest Find: See Invis mobs that don't really See Invis

[Rygar]

I came across an interesting find in my ClassicQuest journey, and I think it will answer a lot of questions as to what really saw invis and saw through Rogue Hide/Sneak.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010822...ve/arc54.shtml

Stealth Nerf?

I suspect that you may have been /coning a creature set to what we call "AggroPC", meaning that it attacks everyone without regard to faction. NPCs will only appear "Indifferent" in a /con if they have a reason that they wouldn't attack a player character. For instance, the guards in Neriak take faction into account when deciding whether or not they are going to attack, and would show "Indifferent" when invisible. NPCs that attack everyone, like hill giants for instance, show as "scowls" whether or not you are invisible.

Additional Corroboration:
https://web.archive.org/web/20010822...ve/arc69.shtml

Sneak & Hide Skills

[Quote from original post: I don't think that this is fair. If you guys don't want rogues to be invisble to everything, atleast make it so we are able to tell what is really scowling.]

Only creatures that have faction that determine what they will and will not attack give messages in /con indicating if they do or do not see you. Some things in the game will attack anyone, regardless of faction, and these things are always "scowling". If you check hill giants while invis you'll see the same issue. It's working as designed.

This mechanic is very interesting as, I think, it explains a lot as to the confusion players had as to whether or not a creature could see them (add some perceived danger to the world). It also opens up the debate as to if See Invis could really see a rogue hide/sneaking (I know some mobs could, but some posts saying they could 'see through their hide/sneak' may have just been this AggroPC mechanic and wouldn't agro).

I found additional confirmation this was working in Beholder's Maze on spectres and minotaurs here:

Some creatures still con aggresive when you are invisible, but they
won't react to your presence. Someone posted about this being the case
with Spectres. I will accept no responsability for the death of people
acting on this information, though... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is correct.
The conning system will only tell you if they can't see through invis
not if they can.

If you cast camo and run through the Gorge and con a mino there, they
will always be ready to attack, but I can stand right next to them
without problems (until I see the red message telling me I'm about to
appear--at which point I pee my shorts and run as fast as I can
towards the zone... 8)

If something is indifferent, you know they can't see through invis.
If something is ready to attack, you don't know for sure--nor do I
recommend trying to find out with insta-kill mobs like specs, giants
and griffons (at least insta-kill to a char in their teens).

I haven't researched the Spectres seeing through IVU much, is this just a case of someone seeing them con and thinking they would still attack? The minos seem to be confirmed, as are hill giants.

I'm sure there are a ton of mobs like this in old world. Gordon was the dev that confirmed the AggroPC mechanic and he was pretty good at communicating code stuff / game mechanics from what I could tell.

So does this close the hill giant debate on see invis? What other mobs could using this? Could use some help on researching.

For the record, it looks like Uthgaard remembered this from this thread here:

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the eq.castersrealm.com archives, once they added guides to their pages, there's a rogue guide. One of them is RP style from a halfling PoV. It explains giants conning kos while invis/hidden but not really seeing invis. Anyone who cares enough to find it can track down the archive from that information.

Had more to do with a bug in their faction code than them actually seeing invis.

I think I found the info he was mentioning.