******Official politics thread ******

[clevergirl]

Pence did very much help cause it. Just because he buckled and finally decided to help put back the preventative measures that had held it somewhat in check doesn't make him a good guy.

Pence is a really bad man. Don't take my word for it though. Please discover that for yourself, so that you can let it sink into the core of your being.

Pence may even be delusional and think he is a good guy and use that to justify his really naive and extreme positions. It is still no excuse for the political agendas he serves and supports that are based in prejudice bias rather than reason.

[Mblake1981]

Originally Posted by Topgunben [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pence CAUSED a massive HIV outbreak?

Is it typical for liberals to forego any semblance of personal responsibility?

Because he didn't take real measures to prevent adults from doing something. Their choice is his fault, how leadership works when you fail to correct them. You know, "I am not your slave maaaan, don't tell me what to do"

Originally Posted by Wonkie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

my view on the topic is completely childish too, but that doesn't get us anywhere on managing or containing the problem.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Case in point. Morals matter except when it gets in the way of effectiveness.

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cause and effect. Between needle exchanges being illegal and de-funding Planned Parenthood, a source of free HIV screening, over moral objections, Pence created a perfect storm of stupidity that caused horrific consequences for his constituents. Yes.

See above, it is where the blame falls. It is childish and a waste of time to shame them for making a bad choice, they are adults who are free to choose what they will. But we are still responsible for them and you can't run away from that, causes a bigger issue to form. It is why women are becoming more prominent in the health care fields, while men may have led the way in the past it is the females who are naturally compassionate in such ways.

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not liberal

We’re all paying for it anyway. Prevention is cheaper than HIV drug cocktails for life. It’s that simple. We’re not gonna let people die in the streets and the government already pays 50% of the national cost of healthcare. May as well be more efficient

The pragmatic view of an elder citizen who is not concerned about the problems just the solutions. All in all, hes probably right in the long run. Have to give up the childish denial of reality and embrace the fact adults are free to choose even if that choice is foolish. What hasn't been established is where the cut off line is. I know where the old version is but not this one. The lady says there is none, practically ever. What does the man say?

[clevergirl]

I guess we'll just have to go back to "innocent" "children" getting HIV due to the hand of God being a total dick slap in the face before we care about the spread of HIV or vaccinations, if they ever become a thing.

Yes, people do bad, very amoral, foolish things. However, that is not an excuse to turn a blind eye to the problem or use that problem and those peoples amoral choices as a scapegoat to enact ones own beliefs and prejudices on another.

Jesus Christ wouldn't be unnecessarily cruel to people with HIV just because they were gay or did drugs. And he would indeed see the greater good in acknowledging people are flawed and imperfect.

We can use imperfection as a choice and excuse, or we can do better. The choice is ours.

As the guy in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade says: Choose wisely.

[Patriam1066]

We’re paying for it anyway guys. Yalls libertarian world where people embrace freedom of choice, even at the cost of dead citizens, isn’t going to happen

It has nothing to do with personal responsibility. I’m all for being as harsh as humanly possible to addicts, the overweight, the unemployed... it’s just that that gets us precisely no where.

[Mblake1981]

Originally Posted by clevergirl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess we'll just have to go back to "innocent" "children" getting HIV due to the hand of God being a total dick slap in the face before we care about the spread of HIV or vaccinations, if they ever become a thing.

As the guy in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade says: Choose wisely.

"I am here, I am real. I have a voice with a heart and mind. I am one of Gods creatures and he would have compassion for me, consider this. I am good and functional when allowed but I may have made some bad choices, to err is human and I am human. I happen to have an issue with drugs and my sexual orientation may not be part of the mainstream acceptance. There is a chance that if you don't make wise choices while considering me then I may spread diseases sexually through the community, please don't be a blind child looking upon me"

[clevergirl]

I definitely have an issue with drugs (I don't use them or like them). And my solution is to look for better ways to deal with the drugs.

As far as sexuality goes. I can't weigh in there. I don't have sex or actively date people or seek out romantic interests. However, everyone I know more intimately than "hello, stranger" has done pervy things that could very well be considered quite sexually deviant by one standard or another. Humanity is humpy, especially below the age of 40. If there was a way to impart my wisdom or lack of drive on others, I would some how share it if I could. I don't think it will work for the majority however. I caution my family about their sexual practices. Perhaps, I'm stunted and will never mature as a sexual being. Everquest is fun. (TM)

[Mblake1981]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We’re paying for it anyway guys. Yalls libertarian world where people embrace freedom of choice, even at the cost of dead citizens, isn’t going to happen

It has nothing to do with personal responsibility. I’m all for being as harsh as humanly possible to addicts, the overweight, the unemployed... it’s just that that gets us precisely no where.

So where is the cut off line?

[Patriam1066]

I wish the pentagon was responsible with my money. No one ever asks for any responsibility or accountability on the republican side unless it’s for individuals who are generally the most underprivileged. I’m guessing a huge number of IV drug users suffer from schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, but who cares

We have plenty of money for military adventurism in Yemen, Syria, and soon Iran, but kids in flint drink lead water. Who cares I guess

Beto 2018

[Cecily]

Don't underestimate the destructive power of good old depression.

[Mblake1981]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wish the pentagon was responsible with my money. No one ever asks for any responsibility or accountability on the republican side unless it’s for individuals who are generally the most underprivileged. I’m guessing a huge number of IV drug users suffer from schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, but who cares

We have plenty of money for military adventurism in Yemen, Syria, and soon Iran, but kids in flint drink lead water. Who cares I guess

Beto 2018

So are you suggesting the cut off line should be a more top down focus where the cut is actually on the upper end of leaders because they make choices that harm the ones beneath them?

The focus should not be on the populace but rather people who allow war to continue and don't care if mentally sick people die or if some can get clean water.

If this is your position, ok. I think you have cut those that can actually perform, ableism I think they call it. Is there no cut off line for the other side? are they free from this because they are not the ones in a position of responsibility? like it was stated earlier, it falls with the person in charge.

Edit: Oops, I did a "so you're saying". Apologies, Patriam (serious)