Solo Barbarian Shaman Stat Allocation

[ArbiterBlixen]

It's objectively true that it's harder to get 300 mana worth of gear than 75hp.

If OP is a smart person that wants balance among their valued stats, choosing wisdom as a starting stat covers far more ground in that pursuit than stamina does.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, I keep making the same points, and you keep ignoring them and not offering any evidence to the contrary ... but you've won the discussion because you declare it so. I bow down to your superior EQ knowledge. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You still haven't shown evidence that mana is more valuable than HP, either before 60 or at 60, and you still haven't shown evidence that a real non-raid Shaman (who cares about more than just maxxing Stamina) would ever hit the cap before they've run out of reasons to play the character,

You someone else made a Magelo of a contrived Stamina-only Shaman (who had to have a complete set of non-raiding gear in order to hit the cap) and declared yourself the victor. Great, you "won" ... what?

I'm a human trying to have a conversation: converse with me, talk about what I'm talking about ... don't chime in with a two sentence sound bite that ignores every point I've made and declare you've won the (imaginary) battle in your head.

I find it funny you are complaining that I am not typing enough, when you often complain I type too much. The problem isn't the length of the reply, you just don't like people disagreeing with you.

We have shown you evidence. Those two Magelos are examples of how STA is easy to cap with gear that isn't hard to get. Those Magelos aren't "contrived" item lists, those are pretty good items for Shamans, and they are not hard to get. Please show us a Magelo of what you think a "casual level 60 Shaman" looks like.

OP did NOT ask "what is better, HP or Mana"? OP asked about "Solo Barbarian Stat Allocation". In that case, the answer comes down to which is better 25 STA, or 25 WIS? When asking these questions, you simply need to look at how stats are distributed on gear in the era you are playing in. The best starting stat is the primary stat that is hardest to max. It's really that simple. The reason for this is because once you hit the cap, you aren't benefiting from the stat.

If you ever got down to 75HP in a level 60 encounter, the problem wasn't your starting stats. The problem was with the encounter. You got bad luck, tried to fight something too hard, or aren't skilled enough. Remember, we are only talking about 75HP at best. It isn't like you can increase your starting stats somehow later in the game. That is why the discussion is NOT "what is better, HP or Mana?", because the numbers are always fixed, and will deteriorate based on if you cap the stat.

Both 75HP and 150-250ish Mana will slightly increase your chances of survival at level 60. Both can keep you from dying, but the chances are small in either case. Either choice isn't going to make or break your experience, so there is no reason to overthink it. Pick the stat that is hardest to cap so you can benefit from the stat more often.

EDIT: Finally, I am not sure why you are fixated on my mentioning of Hammer of the Dragonborn. My point was that Shamans have more STA buffs than WIS buffs. It's really that simple. I still don't have a Hammer of the Dragonborn by the way. You don't NEED one to cap STA, as shown by the Magelos posted earlier.

[loramin]

It's not about how much you type, it's about engaging in a conversation and not just trying to win imaginary battles in your head.

As for the rest, you're still dodging my points, but at least you're trying to engage now which is a nice improvement. So let's focus on my points. 1) If it's nearly impossible for a non-raid Shaman to max Stamina (without doing a completely unrealistic all-Stamina-focused build AND that build being completely realized ... ie. the Shaman is at the end of their career) ... then it doesn't matter which stat is easier to cap.

2) If you aren't hitting the cap, then it truly comes down to which is more valuable, mana or HP ... and HP is more valuable. When "You got bad luck" (as you put it), you don't want to die: more HP helps increase the chances that you don't, while mana simply doesn't.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not about how much you type, it's about engaging in a conversation and not just trying to win imaginary battles in your head.

As for the rest, you're still dodging my points, but at least you're trying to engage now which is a nice improvement. So let's focus on my points. 1) If it's nearly impossible for a non-raid Shaman to max Stamina (without doing a completely unrealistic all-Stamina-focused build AND that build being completely realized ... ie. the Shaman is at the end of their career) ... then it doesn't matter which stat is easier to cap.

2) If you aren't hitting the cap, then it truly comes down to which is more valuable, mana or HP ... and HP is more valuable. When "You got bad luck" (as you put it), you don't want to die: more HP helps increase the chances that you don't, while mana simply doesn't.

I am engaging in the conversation, and I am not dodging any points. Your "imaginary battle" fantasy is just silly and wrong. Please stop wasting time on it. Making up random and wrong assumptions about other people doesn't help your argument.

1. Wrong, it is not nearly impossible. Two different Magelos made by two different people with two different gear selections show this. Both Magelos do not have unobtainable raid gear for a non-raid Shaman. Every item in both of those Magelos could be obtained without raiding.

2. We are discussing 75HP vs 150-250ish Mana at level 60. Neither of those are very valuable by themselves. If 150 mana or 75HP determined the outcome of the battle, the problem wasn't your starting stats. Mana DOES increase your chances of not dying too. I have run out of Mana before due to bad resist chains. Shaman spells are expensive. That is dangerous because you may not have enough mana to gate, and not enough HP to cannibalize safely. Having an extra 200 mana means you could land 1 more slow, root, torpor, or gate. That CAN save your life.

[ArbiterBlixen]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Barbsham2

Here you go Loramin an easily attained wis starting stat build that maxes stamina. Wis still not close to max. No items here require raiding.


Edit, the page is going in and out of working, not sure why

[Jimjam]

The real answer is all strength. At 60 the benefit provided by a couple dozen of any stat is a blip. That aspect has already been discussed. At low/mid levels the same strength is worth +100pp every single time you vendor (a bunch of fine steel / bronze / armour each vendor visit) and it has a noticeable impact on your melee (which is relevant till 40).

You’re gonna vendor more than a thousand times on the way to 60 ergo going max strength is the equivalent of starting with torpor (a 100,000 pp spell).

Move to resolved.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am engaging in the conversation, and I am not dodging any points. Your "imaginary battle" fantasy is just silly and wrong. Please stop wasting time on it.

1. Wrong, it is not nearly impossible. Two different Magelos made by two different people with two different gear selections show this. Both Magelos do not have unobtainable raid gear for a non-raid Shaman. Every item in both of those Magelos could be obtained without raiding.

Again, you really need to read the threads you participate in: up until this post there was exactly one Magelo ... the guy just renamed it because Danth was like "why are you calling it Danth's Wife?", and you didn't read the actual thread, so you thought there were two.

But, (right after you wrote that), there actually were two ...

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Barbsham2

Here you go Loramin an easily attained wis starting stat build that maxes stamina. Wis still not close to max. No items here require raiding.

So look, I appreciate that you're actually doing the work to prove your point, and you've clearly proved that:

A) if you want Stamina, there are "better" ways to gear a Shaman than the way Loramin is geared (... if you like having a lot less AC, no regen, no instant-clicky item, ...)

B) it is possible, with more than just one possible build, to cap max Stamina as a casual Shaman

But none of that disputes my original point, and in fact your Magelos really just support it, because: they're end-game Shaman. They're not 0-60 Shaman, they're not 60-Torpor Shaman, and they're not Torpor-"final gear (or nearly)" Shaman ... they're just "final gear (or nearly) Shaman".

For the vast, vast majority of OP's playtime, everything until they have all but the very last few item slots filled with the very best items they can possibly acquire ... they will not hit the cap.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you really need to read the threads you participate in: up until this post there was exactly one Magelo ... the guy just renamed it because Danth was like "why are you calling it Danth's Wife?", and you didn't read the actual thread, so you thought there were two.

But, (right after you wrote that), there actually were two ...



So look, I appreciate that you're actually doing the work to prove your point, and you've clearly proved that:

A) if you want Stamina, there are "better" ways to gear a Shaman than the way Loramin is geared (... if you like having a lot less AC, no regen, no instant-clicky item, ...)

B) it is possible, with more than just one possible build, to cap max Stamina as a casual Shaman

But none of that disputes my original point, and in fact your Magelos really just support it, because: they're end-game Shaman. They're not 0-60 Shaman, they're not 60-Torpor Shaman, and they're not Torpor-"final gear (or nearly)" Shaman ... they're just "final gear (or nearly) Shaman".

For the vast, vast majority of OP's playtime, everything until they have all but the very last few item slots filled with the very best items they can possibly acquire ... they will not hit the cap.

I did read the thread, you need to take your own advice lol.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:BarbShaman was posted by Siberious, and https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]anthswife was posted by Arbiterblixen. So yes, there were two different people with two different Magelos[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not sure why you are talking about 0-60 Shaman, since you yourself said you are not talking about them.

I was capped on STA before I got Torpor or level 60, and that was all funded by basically just killing guards lol. People can easily cap STA if they put some effort into it. If someone is truly so casual that they have garbage gear at level 60, they probably don't care about their starting stats either to be honest. If they cared about stats, they would progress their gear.

Finally, you are dodging my point about Mana being able to save your life too, since you seem to have this weird idea that it cant.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did read the thread, you need to take your own advice lol.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:BarbShaman was posted by Siberious, and https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]anthswife was posted by Arbiterblixen. So yes, there were two different people with two different Magelos[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, they were the same Magelo, renamed. Way to double down on being wrong.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not sure why you are talking about 0-60 Shaman, since you yourself said you are not talking about them.

You must be referring to something out of context: I've said multiple times in this thread (with explanations) how HP > Mana, both before and at 60.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was capped on STA before I got Torpor or level 60

So to be clear: you did not do any high-end raiding prior to acquiring Torpor?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Finally, you are dodging my point about Mana being able to save your life too, since you seem to have this weird idea that it cant.

What "point"? You insisted your opinion was true without any explanation whatsoever:

Both 75HP and 150-250ish Mana will slightly increase your chances of survival at level 60. Both can keep you from dying, but the chances are small in either case.

I've already explained (I know you hate reading existing threads, but do try to keep up) how in a variety of the fights I imagine Shaman doing at 60 (eg. Seb, PoM, WW), the hard part of the fight isn't running out of mana: the hard part is living long enough to land a slow (or re-slow).

If you want to convince me otherwise, just explain the situations that a 60 Shaman would be in where mana would save their life and HP wouldn't.


Look, I'll admit this much to both you and ArbiterBlixen ArbiterBlixen. Even as a "casual" (ie. non-high-end-raiding) Shaman, once you've gotten all or nearly all your gear, depending on how much you like Stamina vs. AC, HP, regen, clickies, and other factors: you may well hit the Stamina cap.

If that happens ... well, you'll never actually notice the issue in play, but for min/max purposes (which is fun for some people) it's possible you'll wish you'd put more points in Wisdom ...

... for the remaining 0.01% of the total time spent playing that character. Because honestly, few people continue playing a character much when there is no gear left to get for them.

But I still maintain that for the 99.9% of the character's life up until that point, more Stamina (ie. HP) will serve them better than more Wisdom (ie. Mana).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, they were the same Magelo, renamed. Way to double down on being wrong.

What are you talking about? Check the history on both of those links lol. It shows the pages being created by TWO different users. Unless you are suggesting they are the same person with two different accounts?

02:50, 21 July 2022‎ Siberious (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (1,038 bytes) (+1,038)‎ . . (Created page with "startMageloProfile * Name: BarbShaman * Class: Shaman * Race: Barbarian * Level: 60 * Guild: * Religion: * AltOrTestChar: No * BaseSTR: 103 * BaseSTA: 105 * BaseAGI: 82 * ...")

03:10, 21 July 2022 Arbiterblixen (Talk | contribs) moved page Magelo Blue[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]anthswife to Magelo Blue:Bobo (revert)