Ranger weapon with Swiftwind

[Ciroco]

Wurmslayer is not as close to Lammy at 60 as that calculation indicates. It's not worth using 51+ IMO.

[Darguth]

I've always understood the x2 mod in the calculation that's repeated so much in this thread to be incorrect. The formula I've used is:

Mod = (Weapon Skill + Strength - 75)/100 <minimum 2>
MH Damage Bonus (1h) = (Level -25)/3 <minimum 0>
Ratio = (Wpn Dmg * Mod + MH Dmg Bonus)/Wpn Delay

So if you're at max weapon skill (240) and max strength (255) then your modifier is actually 4.2 and not 2.0.

Is that not how it works?

[Jimjam]

To be honest I think 2.0 is actually a little high, so 4.2 is surely far off!

[Kutsumo]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be honest I think 2.0 is actually a little high, so 4.2 is surely far off!

Yeah 2.0 always seems really low when I'm swinging for 74 damage with a 15dmg weapon. It should be more like 1.5.

It's so silly that subtracting 11 from 74, then dividing by 4.2 equals 15. Definitely far off.

[koros]

Originally Posted by Darguth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've always understood the x2 mod in the calculation that's repeated so much in this thread to be incorrect. The formula I've used is:

Mod = (Weapon Skill + Strength - 75)/100 <minimum 2>
MH Damage Bonus (1h) = (Level -25)/3 <minimum 0>
Ratio = (Wpn Dmg * Mod + MH Dmg Bonus)/Wpn Delay

So if you're at max weapon skill (240) and max strength (255) then your modifier is actually 4.2 and not 2.0.

Is that not how it works?

It's not how it works. The 2x is an attempt to calculate mean hit, not max.

[Holey]

swift of zek and swiftblade KEK

[Darguth]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not how it works. The 2x is an attempt to calculate mean hit, not max.

It can't simply be too though, otherwise offensive stats mean nothing.

[Jimjam]

Right, I decided to look at my logs to see how good an approximation the 2DMG+Damage bonus (or just 2DMG for off hand) is for weapons hits.

This is for a ranger in his late 40s with around 200 STR Equipped with Wurmslayer and Lupine Dagger.

Across a variety of mobs the Wurmslayer's average hit was 54, the Lupine dagger's 16. Factoring in delay that is a ratio of 1.52 (54/40:16/18). The formula suggests the Wurmslayer in primary should do 1.5 ((25+25+10)/40:(9+9/)18) the damage/delay of the Lupine Dagger.

I'm not going to lie, I'm surprised at how close the expected figure for the relative value of the weapons was to how they performed in the field. I'll look at the results under different tests to see the differences; most of these fights were against low dark blues, meaning I had decent ATK versus the defenders AC, allowing the DMG to come in to play. I suspect against more difficult mobs we will see that having low delay becomes more important (as damage bonus is not mitigated by AC, unlike DMG).

[Darguth]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right, I decided to look at my logs to see how good an approximation the 2DMG+Damage bonus (or just 2DMG for off hand) is for weapons hits.

This is for a ranger in his late 40s with around 200 STR Equipped with Wurmslayer and Lupine Dagger.

Across a variety of mobs the Wurmslayer's average hit was 54, the Lupine dagger's 16. Factoring in delay that is a ratio of 1.52 (54/40:16/18). The formula suggests the Wurmslayer in primary should do 1.5 ((25+25+10)/40:(9+9/)18) the damage/delay of the Lupine Dagger.

I'm not going to lie, I'm surprised at how close the expected figure for the relative value of the weapons was to how they performed in the field. I'll look at the results under different tests to see the differences; most of these fights were against low dark blues, meaning I had decent ATK versus the defenders AC, allowing the DMG to come in to play. I suspect against more difficult mobs we will see that having low delay becomes more important (as damage bonus is not mitigated by AC, unlike DMG).

You could do a similar test with the same weapons on the same mobs but remove your STR/ATK gear and buffs to see how they factor into the average damage.

[Darguth]

My big problem with using the modifier of 2 is that I've heard it often repeated that the Woodsman's Staff is the best pre-Epic DPS for a ranger. Assuming the 2H bonus damage is (Level-25)/1.8 instead of (Level-25)/3 for a 1H weapon (I'd have to track down the source of this, it was some archived ZAM page, and yes I know the delay factors in but this is just for a quick show and I'm likely being on the generous end for the 2Her) you get a 2H dmg bonus of 19 versus 11 for a 1Her.

That gives the Woodsman's Staff a:
((31*2)+19)/35 = 2.31 ratio

Now use my current setup on a 47 ranger of Spined Dragon Claw MH (10/21) and Green Jade Broadsword OH (11/25) and you get:
((10*2)+11)/21 = 1.47
(11*2)/25 = 0.88

So those numbers give you the SDC and GJB being better (2.35 combined) than the Staff (2.31), which seems like nonsense compared to conventional wisdom. The damage bonus divider has to be as low as 1.66 (instead of 3 for a 1Her and instead of 1.8 as I used above) before the Staff starts to edge out even this two so-so weapons. It would have to be much lower for the Staff to clearly be the best DPS pre-Epics.

The MOD value of 2 in ((DMG*MOD)+BONUS)/DELAY function seems to only be valid in finding the Magic Number of your weapon's damage and doesn't seem an accurate portrayal of your overall damage outlay. I believe parses show the Magic Number only accounting for 10-15% of hits against dark blue targets. The Max Damage calculation I proposed before doesn't seem to accurately represent it either, but the truth must lie somewhere in the middle it would seem.