Shaman race debate

[Synthlol]

Originally Posted by DevGrousis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What race is the best choice for shammy?

Originally Posted by Darkatar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's a few samples:

________________________
[Tue Dec 30 17:44:12 2014] You begin casting Torpor.
[Tue Dec 30 17:44:12 2014] You haven't recovered yet...
[Tue Dec 30 17:44:14 2014] An ire ghast bashes YOU for 32 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 17:44:14 2014] An ire ghast hits YOU for 54 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 17:44:16 2014] You resist the Disease Cloud spell!
[Tue Dec 30 17:44:18 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Tue Dec 30 17:44:18 2014] You fall into a state of torpor.
________________________
[Tue Dec 30 17:58:01 2014] You begin casting Torpor.
[Tue Dec 30 17:58:05 2014] A scorn banshee hits YOU for 100 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 17:58:06 2014] A scorn banshee bashes YOU for 39 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 17:58:07 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Tue Dec 30 17:58:07 2014] You fall into a state of torpor.
________________________
[Tue Dec 30 18:10:38 2014] You begin casting Torpor.
[Tue Dec 30 18:10:41 2014] You have healed Ginfizzie for 300 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 18:10:41 2014] Cleric of Innoruuk bashes YOU for 46 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 18:10:44 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Tue Dec 30 18:10:44 2014] You fall into a state of torpor.
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[Tue Dec 30 19:09:03 2014] You begin casting Malo.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:03 2014] King Tranix pet hits YOU for 32 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:04 2014] King Tranix pet bashes YOU for 14 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:04 2014] You feel your lifeforce drain away. You have taken 27 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:04 2014] King Tranix hits YOU for 59 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:05 2014] King Tranix bashes YOU for 46 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:06 2014] King Tranix hits YOU for 124 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:06 2014] King Tranix hits YOU for 41 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:06 2014] King Tranix pet tries to hit YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:08 2014] Urrsa has healed you for 300 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:09:08 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
________________________
[Tue Dec 30 19:11:42 2014] You begin casting Paralyzing Earth.
[Tue Dec 30 19:11:44 2014] Fire giant warrior bashes YOU for 36 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:11:44 2014] Your Paralyzing Earth spell has worn off.
[Tue Dec 30 19:11:44 2014] Fire giant warrior hits YOU for 74 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:11:44 2014] Fire giant warrior kicks YOU for 31 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:11:44 2014] Fire giant warrior hits YOU for 49 points of damage.
[Tue Dec 30 19:11:45 2014] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
________________________
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:41 2015] You begin casting Torpor.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:41 2015] An ire ghast hits YOU for 100 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:41 2015] An ire ghast bashes YOU for 32 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:42 2015] Cleric of Innoruuk hits YOU for 64 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:44 2015] A spite golem pet bites YOU for 35 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:44 2015] An ire ghast hits YOU for 128 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:44 2015] Cleric of Innoruuk hits YOU for 103 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:44 2015] Cleric of Innoruuk hits YOU for 72 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:44 2015] Cleric of Innoruuk bashes YOU for 54 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:45 2015] An ire ghast hits YOU for 32 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:45 2015] A loathling lich slices YOU for 132 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:45 2015] You resist the Gravity Flux spell!
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:45 2015] A spite golem pet bites YOU for 29 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:47 2015] An ire ghast hits YOU for 111 points of damage.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:47 2015] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Jan 31 00:13:47 2015] You fall into a state of torpor.
_______________________
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:10 2015] You begin casting Torpor.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:11 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 192 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:11 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 128 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:12 2015] Brigadier G`tav kicks YOU for 49 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:12 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 200 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:12 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 192 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:12 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 192 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:14 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 144 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:14 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 176 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:16 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 160 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:16 2015] Brigadier G`tav slashes YOU for 192 points of damage.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:17 2015] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Sat Feb 28 13:16:17 2015] You fall into a state of torpor.
_______________________
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:08 2015] You begin casting Enstill.
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:08 2015] You haven't recovered yet...
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:08 2015] You can't use that command right now...
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:09 2015] A shin ghoul knight bashes YOU for 7 points of damage.
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:09 2015] Your legs feel weak.
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:09 2015] A shin ghoul knight tries to hit YOU, but YOU dodge!
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:09 2015] A greater ice bones bashes YOU for 18 points of damage.
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:09 2015] A greater ice bones bashes YOU for 15 points of damage.
[Wed Mar 04 16:51:10 2015] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
_______________________

Originally Posted by theaetatus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, that's being optimistic... When you consider that having to recast a spell after a bash and taking 1 or 2 more rounds of melee from 1 or 2 mobs in HS also completely undoes about 10 minutes of regen bonus, frontal stun immunity particularly shines in places like HS.

Darkatar and theaetatus have put the final nails in the coffin with these posts. Anyone who claims that racial regen makes for a better shaman than frontal stun immunity has no credibility on the subject.

/thread

Edit: TL;DR - Ogre

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Synthlol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyone who claims that racial regen makes for a better shaman (at level 60 with Torpor) than frontal stun immunity has no credibility on the subject.

FTFY. Even with those logs I'm still pretty sure that racial regen > frontal stun immunity for a level 30 shaman.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FTFY. Even with those logs I'm still pretty sure that racial regen > frontal stun immunity for a level 30 shaman.

that's because it is. common player will never see 60, much less torpor. ogre fanbois are already ogres trying to justify their choice (confirmation bias). anybody that will never make it to 60 is ok rolling any race they choose, but probably best off picking troll.

[Bristlebaner]

If shrink worked everywhere then ogre > all.

[kagrobb]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that's because it is. common player will never see 60, much less torpor. ogre fanbois are already ogres trying to justify their choice (confirmation bias). anybody that will never make it to 60 is ok rolling any race they choose, but probably best off picking troll.

Tanking the mob is the face and still casting your slow/root/dot/debuff works at any and all levels. Racial regen is nice and wonderful at lower levels, but as you level up you get diminished returns from regen. You regen less of the damage % you take per hit at higher levels. Also if you are talking about regening while sitting versus standing and using canni to regen mana and then heal yourself up with a spell line other than topor say chloroblast you will still are going to be full hp/mana than just siting and regening mana and hp at the same time regardless of race/fungi use.

Don't get me wrong troll/isky are great and pre regen spell they are more potent but as soon as shaman get that line and can self ast regen the playing field in the hp regen dept gets a little more level. I would say that it is easier to level up at the lower levels for troll/isky for sure, but that advantage is less noticeable at higher levels.

Oh and using the JBB should not be a deciding factor for not picking the isky shaman since all shaman get that spell and it just gives a longer cast time nuke, but clicking the Kunark BP for bramblecoat should be though since that is a spell that does not appear in the the shaman spell lineup and gives a small ac boost and dmg shield.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by kagrobb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh and using the JBB should not be a deciding factor for not picking the isky shaman since all shaman get that spell and it just gives a longer cast time nuke

Wow, spoken like someone who's never had a JBB. There is a HUGE difference between the Winter's Roar a Shaman can cast, and the one the JBB can cast, and that difference is mana. With a JBB I can kill a mob using only slow, or using only a few roots, or even using only my pet (if the mob is low enough that it won't kill dogdog).

Good luck killing anything using only a single slow's worth of mana without a JBB (or epic).

[DrKvothe]

Originally Posted by kagrobb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tanking the mob is the face and still casting your slow/root/dot/debuff works at any and all levels. Racial regen is nice and wonderful at lower levels, but as you level up you get diminished returns from regen. You regen less of the damage % you take per hit at higher levels. Also if you are talking about regening while sitting versus standing and using canni to regen mana and then heal yourself up with a spell line other than topor say chloroblast you will still are going to be full hp/mana than just siting and regening mana and hp at the same time regardless of race/fungi use.

Don't get me wrong troll/isky are great and pre regen spell they are more potent but as soon as shaman get that line and can self ast regen the playing field in the hp regen dept gets a little more level. I would say that it is easier to level up at the lower levels for troll/isky for sure, but that advantage is less noticeable at higher levels.

Oh and using the JBB should not be a deciding factor for not picking the isky shaman since all shaman get that spell and it just gives a longer cast time nuke, but clicking the Kunark BP for bramblecoat should be though since that is a spell that does not appear in the the shaman spell lineup and gives a small ac boost and dmg shield.

Lots wrong with this post. Pretty much all of it.

[iruinedyourday]

Based on these threads I recomend not making a shaman at all, so you can just avoid all this douchbaggrry

[kagrobb]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow, spoken like someone who's never had a JBB. There is a HUGE difference between the Winter's Roar a Shaman can cast, and the one the JBB can cast, and that difference is mana. With a JBB I can kill a mob using only slow, or using only a few roots, or even using only my pet (if the mob is low enough that it won't kill dogdog).

Good luck killing anything using only a single slow's worth of mana without a JBB (or epic).

you took that the wrong way. I said that should not be the decciding fector since we get that spell, we do not get bramblecoat spell line ever ... jbb is and has always been insanely nice for nuking things sans mana.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by kagrobb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said that should not be the decciding fector since we get that spell, we do not get bramblecoat spell line ever ... jbb is and has always been insanely nice for nuking things sans mana.

I'd say being able to kill mobs for 0 mana (or one slow's worth of mana for a harder mobs) absolutely should be a "decciding fector". The fact that we get the same spell for mana has absolutely nothing to do with it, because the value of the JBB is in the free damage part, not the "be able to cast a specific Shaman spell" part.