Raid Changes

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Fountree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's to the future of GM-enforced rotations, bans on account sales, more spyware, more rules, more non-classic coding/gameplay changes to appease the poor players who are stomped over by the big bad TMO? Am I right Rog?

Oh, and also, am I not allowed to have a valid opinion because I'm in TMO? No one's completely objective in this world.

Emphasis mine.

Except the initial proposed raid changes are to bring the raid scene closer to classic. Variance creates a massively different raiding scene than that experienced on Live.

Not that I have a solution, or that your hyperbolic solutions are the only/best ones, but character preservation is an issue on this server. Not many people on Live kept 4+ accounts active at $14 a piece. I've stated my case about how its not classic and detrimental to server health and prosperity, please provide evidence to the contrary for me to consider instead of hyperbolic "sky is falling" whining.

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After the variance is cut in half and given how long Kunark has been out, throw them a freaking bone every now and then.

Zero bones given.

[Artaenc]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also do not like the idea of raid guilds spreading their camped alts around in order to quickly log in and out to maximize raid targets.. but I'm not seeing any good solutions to that problem.

And you do have a point in saying that people who quit on live generally wouldn't be seen again, their subscription would run out, nobody is going to bother paying $14/month just to keep them standing by on a raid spawn so they can quickly be logged in to kill something.

Is it possible to code it so that during the simulated down time you lock people in to being able to log on to only the first character they logged on with for a couple of hours? Maybe use a combination of IP and mac address? I know that IP and mac addresses can be changed using proxy and macshift or even another computer but it would definitely minimize the number of people that can camp multiple characters at multiple boss spawns.

[Fountree]

See this ^ is what I was talking about. If this pisses you off, please make yourself heard!

By enforcing something like this you're assuming that players are only using the characters for raid purposes and not real "playing". You're telling players that "hey, I know what you're doing with your characters, you're camping them right? I'm assuming you are, so you can only use your characters to do X on this server, not Y." And that's why this is just wrong.

[Lazortag]

Okay, some of this stuff is overly complicated. Firstly, it's impossible to enforce any rules against selling accounts or having multiple accounts, mainly because you can have two players living in the same house. Anything that is enforceable is probably overreaching. Secondly, it's not just TMO that benefits from account selling or having leftover accounts - casual guilds benefit too. Our main warrior, porter, and hate tracker are all bought accounts. A lot of our naggy alts belonged to other players first. As much as I dislike it, I feel like account selling and owning multiple (free) accounts isn't going away. Let's just see how the raid changes affect the raid scene, I'm sure they'll be satisfactory and we won't need many other big changes.

[Autumnbow]

Originally Posted by cyryllis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ITT: Proposed repop and reduced variance = good
TMO= evil because they like playing a lot and raiding all the time

I just keep getting this feeling that very few of you played live or can actually remember what went on. On my server (Fennin Ro) there was always a top guild pretty much dominating the raid scene and leaving very little for anyone else. No, they didnt have batphones- much of the time they just spent the vast majority of the day on and formed up when numbers were sufficient/ had designated raid times. The population was higher and despite having multiple higher end guilds with various timezones, the "top guild" still got 90+% of raid targets-especially early on.

Even when it came to later expansions, like PoP, when there was vastly more content than we have here, guilds complained about the same stuff. TMO was clearing PoF/PoE/PoA/PoW, while the guild I was part of Severed was trying to catch up, but just then taking the chance to backgear in Vex thal and lower planes since we never got the chance to farm much during luclin. When TMO was farming the crap out of PoTime (before they made it multiple instances) we were shit out of luck and they owned the zone.

Game has always been this way, regarding the high end. The difference is that back then, a much higher percentage of the server population was happy just experiencing the 1-60 content, grouping with friends, chatting with guildies, having random adventures, etc. The high end game raiders were a smaller percentage of the server for years, until Sony decided to basically 100% devote content to these people, add instancing, etc. However, on this server the majority of players that came here are from raiding guilds and very few care about the low end now.

People want a classic experience (or so they claim)- but on a server this top heavy, where everyone wants to raid and see all the content- you simply cant see it all and keep it classic.

On VZ, Defiant got most of the top spawns, but other guilds were able to compete sometimes because of PvP. I guess I must be wrong, but I assumed that the situation on blue servers involved rotations. Honestly, I swear I remember reading about blue guilds signing up for rotations back in the day. Why is TMO so against this? Camping raid spawns for days at a time, spamming the target nearest NPC button for hopes at getting FTE, this is not competition and I can't imagine it being fun for anyone. Without PvP, there really doesn't seem to be any sort of competition. Wouldn't the game be more enjoyable for all of the raiding guilds if they could stop acting like children and learn to share?

I don't understand any of this.

[Ferok]

Originally Posted by Artaenc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is it possible to code it so that during the simulated down time you lock people in to being able to log on to only the first character they logged on with for a couple of hours? Maybe use a combination of IP and mac address? I know that IP and mac addresses can be changed using proxy and macshift or even another computer but it would definitely minimize the number of people that can camp multiple characters at multiple boss spawns.

Again, this is decidedly not-classic. If you've leveled multiple characters to 60, this should be an option to you.

But once again, I disagree with the notion of allowing people to have multiple accounts and to be able to buy/sell/trade them. This is fundamentally non-classic. If you can't play two characters, you shouldn't be able to have two accounts. Of course, a rule change here gives a one-time character transfer exemption or something.

[Rubin]

Originally Posted by Fountree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's a difference between TMO giving those mobs away or choosing not to compete on them and the GMs enforcing things that give an advantage to one guild or another.

That statement doesn't make any sense and is misleading. Every guild will operate under the same rules, TMO isn`t particularly disadvantaged, the rules are just different.

[Ferok]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay, some of this stuff is overly complicated. Firstly, it's impossible to enforce any rules against selling accounts or having multiple accounts, mainly because you can have two players living in the same house. Anything that is enforceable is probably overreaching. Secondly, it's not just TMO that benefits from account selling or having leftover accounts - casual guilds benefit too. Our main warrior, porter, and hate tracker are all bought accounts. A lot of our naggy alts belonged to other players first. As much as I dislike it, I feel like account selling and owning multiple (free) accounts isn't going away. Let's just see how the raid changes affect the raid scene, I'm sure they'll be satisfactory and we won't need many other big changes.

The point here isn't to destroy TMO though, the point is to make a more classic raiding experience. That Divinity also benefits from account sales is nice and all, but I don't think that makes it okay.

If they can enforce the multi-boxing rules, they can enforce multi-account rules. It's not any different, and it's not any harder.

[Artaenc]

Originally Posted by Ferok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, this is decidedly not-classic. If you've leveled multiple characters to 60, this should be an option to you.

But once again, I disagree with the notion of allowing people to have multiple accounts and to be able to buy/sell/trade them. This is fundamentally non-classic. If you can't play two characters, you shouldn't be able to have two accounts. Of course, a rule change here gives a one-time character transfer exemption or something.

Understood but a simulated reset on a regular basis with variance and now cut in half isn't classic either. Let's face it, the difinition of classic have been skewed, altered, stepped on and torn in half here most likely not on purpose but a side effect of fixing other issues. I was just giving suggestions to solve a problem if they were going to move forward with this. When I play on this server I don't really care what's classic and what isn't as much as whether the boats are working or not.

[India]

Originally Posted by Autumnbow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On VZ, Defiant got most of the top spawns, but other guilds were able to compete sometimes because of PvP. I guess I must be wrong, but I assumed that the situation on blue servers involved rotations. Honestly, I swear I remember reading about blue guilds signing up for rotations back in the day. Why is TMO so against this? Camping raid spawns for days at a time, spamming the target nearest NPC button for hopes at getting FTE, this is not competition and I can't imagine it being fun for anyone. Without PvP, there really doesn't seem to be any sort of competition. Wouldn't the game be more enjoyable for all of the raiding guilds if they could stop acting like children and learn to share?

I don't understand any of this.

Every blue server had their own set of rules that they followed
On Rodcet we raced for the mobs. The only difference between Rodcet Nife and this server is on RN if a guild got to the mob and was prepping, and a second guild arrived and was ready to engage, the second guild usually (not always) gave the first guild xx minutes to pull and kill,,, else they would leapfrog.

If the first guild pulled and wiped, the second guild killed the mob

If the first guild didn't pull within the time allotted by the guild that was waiting for them,, they would generally rush past (leapfrog) and kill the mob.

As more and more guilds got to raiding level, we had a lot of racing, training, leapfrogging, etc. OOC was always good drama [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]