Raid Changes

[Wonton]

ok

[Zexa]

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Turn in Chaos Books and just fight it out.

Holy God...I think we may have just come to an agreement between guilds!

[Supreme]

I support Full Loot PVP

[Finawin]

If a guild camps a zone, 24/7, who are you to say they don't deserve the spawn?

I sure as hell won't be doing that. With other raid mobs on a variance timer, I don't see this happening much at all.

The priority of the whining seems to come from casuals vs. hardcores, as usual.

Effort put in is usually proportionate to reward. You can't punish people for being dedicated, whatever your opinion on their dedication is.

[messiah_b]

Originally Posted by Keystone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or what messiah said, we could instance everything, put in some solo quests for levelling quicker, and lets give everyone the same set armor as soon as they get level 50. Then everyone can kill Onyxia errr nagafen.

Im glad someone got it.

My second one I believe is a valid solution. Honestly this server was way better when it didn't have forums. Close them all except for bugs / exploits and be done with it.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think you would see 15 people there at all times. Think about that for a second.

I have. I have also seen first hand that Transcendence has proven that they will sit in a zone for hours and hours and hours on the off chance that they may get a target. Given that they KNEW that if they could amass 15 people in an area and get the raid target for sure, I see them spending 48 hours no problem. I see us doing the same thing, and then when the target spawns, and we both have 15 people rdy to go, it's back to square one.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Factor in that Vox and CT will be on the same variance. Do you know how many overlapping spawn times will be going on? Unless you have 45 People that are willing to do nothing but sit at spawn points 24 hours a day ... no guild is going to be able to hold every spawn.

Trans is a ZERG guild Wenai, there is *NO* debating this. This system OBVIOUSLY favors a guild that can have 3 rotations of 15 people locking down 3 spawns, which they have. It doesn't matter if you don't think they would do this, they CAN and that means that this system is exploitable.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Factor in that people are going to want to be farming Plane of Fear gear. Factor in PoHate and PoSky being open eventually. Are there going to be 15 more people sitting in PoHate waiting for Inny? What about Sky?

So maybe we get one target here and there whenever we can muster a multiday force for sky and they don't feel like it? Obviously this is fair.

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the Variance is a very.. very good option. Details need to be worked out by community in a manner that people don't need to worry about KSing if you are the first group of people there.

It's a very, very good option for transcendence. People give them way too much credit for wanting to share. They want all the mobs, just like we do, but instead of wanting to compete for the rights, they have whined and sniveled and cried until big brother comes in and gestapos the whole situation. You're oiling the squeaky wheel Wenai; don't pretend to righteousness.

[Zarniwooop]

The guilds will not see the rationale for rotating. You have really no choice here. The spawn timer variance changes nothing. Setting up complicated rules changes nothing.

I personally would like to see this:

1. If you see a guild with 15+ people camped in a zone waiting on a spawn, LET THEM EFFING HAVE IT OR WIPE! They can't camp everything at once (see point 2).

2. If they DO try to camp everything (more than 1 15 person raid force in different zones), they have zero camp rights and at this point a GM should force them to choose unless the complainant does not have a 15 person raid force in one of the two zones themselves. This one is the tricky one. I would not lose sleep at seeing this rule cut out as it would also require GM involvement.

3. If a guild wipes on an attempt, the other guild must wait for the mob to fully reset and regen before engaging. If the other guild was in the zone, or at the spawn camp at the time of the wipe, they have lost their rights to the spawn. Don't lag-wipe another guild. Basically any guild that violates this, and requires GM supervision should be put on forcible rotation and left there for the good of all.

4. If a guild consistently violates the spirit of these rules, punish them in terms of spawn rights. They won't care about anything else.



This too will not stop GMs from needing to babysit. That was part of oriignal EQ and all EQ until instancing. The only method to make GMs sane would be a rotation unless the guild leaders came to a private agreement on what is rational and what rules they could agree on.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Kutles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think if we were to do this, a 24 hour random spawn timer or even a 48 hour random spawn timer would still result in people "camping" a raid mob.

It seems that we have adhered far too strictly to this magical 7 day respawn timer like it was spelled out by God himself, for dragons and gods respawn timers. If we are already going to meddle with the spawn timer to appease the masses, why don't we lift this artificial 7 day timer and make it anywhere from as short as say a 3 day timer to maximum of a 11 day timer (7 days on average) and anything else inbetween as a possibility. Heck, you could do anywhere from 5 days to 12, 4 days to 11, 3 days to 20, I don't know, but at least it would be random. Yes, if it was nearing the final days of possibility for the respawn timer (whatever we decide on), we would see the guilds coming out of the woodwork to stake claim to that mob and we would have the same issue we had before (who had 15 people or whatever there first), but at least there would be some randomness in those first days of the respawn timer, and provoke some level of competition, instead of metaphorically camping Raster of Guk for 36 hours.

Just one idea. Trash it if you wish.

This is the best variant on the variance solution I have seen, but I still don't put it past trans to camp ct for 5 days in rotation with 15 people in the zone.

[Zarniwooop]

And one additional point, all highly contested spawns with timers > 1 day should have variance in their timers.

[douglas1999]

How about full blown free for all with the caveat that GM's get to utterly ignore all raid-related disputes and petitions. I don't think there exists a system that won't ultimately be violated, so I feel like this would be the best way. I'm not even in a guild so I don't really have an agenda here.