Raid Changes

[Naerron]

I think a few people are way off base here. Getting to kill raid targets, for most of us, is not about wanting to be "gods among noobs" but rather getting to frickin raid lol. I love to raid, that's what kept me in EQ for so long, if it was a game that u just got great gear from group lvl shit i prob woulda quit. That being said here are my thoughts on rotation/competition.

Rotations have their obvious benefits. I know on transcendance's first naggy kill we were trained 3 times before we could even get to the mob. Once the trainers admitted it their guild helped us CR. A rotation eliminates this sort of behavior, and reduces a lot of stress for guild/raid leaders. It also ensures that everyone on the server who as at raiding lvl gets to have some fun and raid. That being said tho..

Mob competition is innately part of EQ. Notably the game started losing many of its key guilds and "celebrity" players when raids started being instance, example is Furror in FoH with plane of time. There are key skills raiding guilds need to be successful that really separate the casuals from the good players, most importantly its teamwork in mobility to a raid target. Having mobs on rotation completely takes this aspect out of the game.

Why did we start needing rotations already? Mostly its because of the lack of raid content available, when there was enough guilds on live to really cause competition between the guilds there were enough targets that a guild could still raid atleast something, even if it was not the mob they had their eyes on. Like i said earlier this is the real motivation for most of us, getting to raid. My solution is not some grand master plan and spawn timer and GM watchings us like babies, but simply give us the other planes to raid. This will alleviate the pressure big time.

However, if this is not in the realm of possibility, due to progression sequence wanted to be maintained by the GMs, then really without their being a cry drama fest rotations seem to be the best route. IF the decision to stay on rotation is kept tho, i think it should be limited to a 4 hour grace period to mobilize and kill the mob before it move to the next guild in the rotation. This low grace period does a few things, it keeps guilds needing to be ready and still leaves a little room for mobilization to be a factor, also it make sure the mob is dead at least close tot he spawn time, this 24 hour crap is BS and makes the mob really a 7-9 day spawn instead of 7 days witht he +/- factor in the respawn.

If anyone is still reading this i sort of feel sorry for you.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Naerron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think a few people are.. ... ..i sort of feel sorry for you.

Naerron you are well spoken and obviously you have thought about your responses. I really agree with a lot of what you said and I really wish we could bring that kind of attitude to the bargaining table.

[Pikle]

Hasbin I had a long post that I wrote out for you but it did not go through. So here's my attempt at an explanation of what I've already written. I don't think you got what I was saying honestly. All the things I were saying was based on the VARIANCE option. Not on an already known spawn timer. Of course if Naggy spawns at 3:21 why wouldn't both guilds sit with a full raid ready to go at the spawn point? Now if Naggy could spawn today or tomorrow and you still both want to sit with a full raid for 48 hours, go right ahead, You won't be able to take out CT or Vox. The VARIANCE option also allows for mobilization competition.

A set spawn time has many problems, but it's classic. A set spawn time gives guilds the ability to plan when and where to be somewhere, so of course you could set up and camp for 14 hours or whatever before hand. This is where a rotation could be put in place. Of course you need to make sure the rotation is fair and that everyone follows the rules. For anyone who cares, the Strong will survive. The strongest guild can take what they want, it's like real life. It should be like a parking spot at Walmart, first come, first serve. If both people continue to try and take the spot, they collide. But every time someone ends up getting the spot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

NOW if you want to keep the spawn time to it's classic point, you set up a rotation. But you have to put someone honest in charge of the rotation. Anyone can be corrupt, anyone from a lvl 1 halfling druid to a GM.

BUT if you want to put in a variance timer then FFA is a logical solution, these things that you claimed I said that weren't very likely but have already happened.... THEY haven't happened, the variance option isn't in for it to happen. With a set timer these things happen, and that's why you are having problems.

Now on my old live server we had 5+ power guilds and we shared rotations on everything. We had a board of people in charge of it so there was limited corruption and we had a forums and everything set up. I don't understand how you people as adults can't solve this issue yourselves without having all these problems and calling mom and dad to help you fix it.

And the reason you haven't heard of me is probably because I'm new and have only been on the server for a week or so. But I do talk in OOC a lot and chat with a lot of people. You probably don't know who I am because you don't notice low lvls much or don't care. I've been very active in OOC and in the community so you must be hiding in solb waiting on naggy or something [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[drplump]

There a few easy solutions I can think of:

1)Put a huge fuckoff mob in their place thats level 255 and invulnerable with same arrgo range that is silently replaced with raid mob to prevent afk on spawn point.

2)Have the raid target shout the name of the first person to appear on its arrgo list. You could even have it automatically banish all players form other guilds for 5 minutes.

3)Make raid targets boot everyone from zone and repop all other mobs when they spawn or a fun variation of auto killing anyone in range right when they spawn.

I think a combination of 1 and 2 would be the best. This just a case of doing an hour of coding work now to replace all the time it takes to announce who got first hit.

[Pikle]

DrpLump I like your suggestions. I honestly think with all that everyone has said we could come up with a viable option that suits all the players on this server. And I don't think it should be just up to the IB and Trans people, what about any up and coming guilds who may have to alter their plans because of this rule. Personally I will start recruiting more wizards or druids if we need to mobilize fast. Or if we can go inside a zone and claim a mob, I will get a ton of rogues and monks to sit at the mob and wait.

Naerron has some good suggestions. Perhaps we should organize a group of people with representatives of all types to help solve the issue?

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Pikle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hasbin I had a long post.. ... ..on naggy or something [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for taking your time.
I hear what you're saying and agree with your spirit, but as I have detailed in other posts, a variance solution will not work for a number of reasons.

Here is one of them.

Here is another.

If variance is implemented, even should it be a 7 day variance, I do not put it past anyone that you would have GuildA kill nagafen and then GuildA starts a 15 person rotation IMMEDIATELY UPON THE KILL which by the rules as they stand means they have a legit claim on the next nagafen if they keep 15 people in the camp the entire time. This might seem ludicrous, but trans is a zerg guild. They have the numbers and they have shown the initiative to camp these bosses for ridiculous amounts of time already. If they really step up recruiting, who is to say they won't have 15man rotations in perma and solb at all times? ..and who is to say <Bear Jews> won't hold the camp for us? It really brings us back to square one when you look at the inevitable result of BOTH raid forces being in the spawn FROM THE TIME A RAID MOB DIES TO THE TIME HE SPAWNS AGAIN. Do we really want that? ..and if it happens, we are literally back to the same place we are at now.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by drplump [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There a few easy solutions I can think of:

1)Put a huge fuckoff mob in their place thats level 255 and invulnerable with same arrgo range that is silently replaced with raid mob to prevent afk on spawn point.

2)Have the raid target shout the name of the first person to appear on its arrgo list. You could even have it automatically banish all players form other guilds for 5 minutes.

3)Make raid targets boot everyone from zone and repop all other mobs when they spawn or a fun variation of auto killing anyone in range right when they spawn.

I think a combination of 1 and 2 would be the best. This just a case of doing an hour of coding work now to replace all the time it takes to announce who got first hit.

I actually like all of these suggestions, but #1 they would not be classic (who would agree to this? seriously I would, but I don't really care about things being exactly classic like many do), and #2 they might be hard to code.

[Dabamf]

Solution to prevent guild-stacking for numbers:

A guild can only camp and claim one raid mob at a time. If they wanna sit at naggy for 48 hours, they can claim it, but can't have another 15 people at Vox doing the same thing. Require raid leader to message other guild, or a game-wide /ooc by raid leader announcing the claim (more transparency).

Add the proposed variance spawn times suggested in the OP.

Add a 2 hour limit from the time the boss mob spawns to the end of the claim. The 2 hours can officially start when the competing guild messages the camping guild in zone-wide /shout and says "I see naggy has spawned, 2 hours starting now." This allows secrecy still (game-wide shouts "NAGGY SPAWNED!" is stupid), and requires the competing guild to still pay attention if they wanna put pressure on the camping guild.

Claim to mobs is as follows:
(1)Nagafen: First guild with 15 in zone AND having engaged a FG.
(2)Vox: suggestions, I'm not that familiar with her
(3)CT: (a) Unbroken fear: First to break fear aka first to kill 4 mobs (number change suggestions are welcome) with 12 people present. (b) Broken fear: First with 18 in zone.

This allows: (1)Each guild gets a shot at one mob a week that they really wanna raid, and the most dedicated get their choice of mob. (2) 2 hour limit puts pressure on camping guild, requiring speed, organization, skill, and preventing dummy camps (players afk sleeping while camping) somewhat. (3)requiring the competing guild to announce the start of the 2 hours upon boss spawn puts pressure on the competing guild to officially document the time limit and they have to pay attention. (4) the better guild still ends up with more raid mobs.

So here's an example:
Transc has more people on and zones into solb anticipating a naggy spawn in the next day or 2. Once 15 arrive in zone and after a FG has been engaged they announce in /ooc or aliz messages Otto saying "naggy spawn claimed." Transc can have 20 other people at vox or CT but they cannot claim rights to the spawn, only 1 raid mob at a time. IB decides to camp Vox (or really do ANYTHING they want to do because they know Transc can't claim other raid mobs). IB has a tracker periodically checking to see if naggy has spawned yet. Naggy spawns, and IB announces in solb /shout "I see naggy spawned, it's 6pm, 2 hours start now." Then lets say Vox spawns, IB kills her and rushes to solb. They wait at the start to FG area until 8pm, at which point if naggy is not dead yet, they are free to run in and engage provided naggy is not currently agro'd.

[Taluvill]

Originally Posted by drplump [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There a few easy solutions I can think of:

1)Put a huge fuckoff mob in their place thats level 255 and invulnerable with same arrgo range that is silently replaced with raid mob to prevent afk on spawn point.

2)Have the raid target shout the name of the first person to appear on its arrgo list. You could even have it automatically banish all players form other guilds for 5 minutes.

3)Make raid targets boot everyone from zone and repop all other mobs when they spawn or a fun variation of auto killing anyone in range right when they spawn.

I think a combination of 1 and 2 would be the best. This just a case of doing an hour of coding work now to replace all the time it takes to announce who got first hit.

I can agree with some of them, although number one can be worked around, have people sit in the fg area, for naggy for example. or have them hold the royals group... ect.
I like #2 and #3 a LOT, although i agree with hasbin, they might take a lot of time to code.

Whoever suggested a 7 day spawn timer would be good, would take time to ensure that the spawn wasnt easy to figure out and so that said mob wouldnt repop within, say, an hour of the kill.

Finally, Pikle has a point. These discussions need to be opened up to our future generations of raiders, if they'd like to be in on it. Would suck if we decided on a sucky, BS system and watched as others had to live with it. Dont think for a second we will be the only 2 high end guilds forever.

(PS: totally off topic, but i wonder what kind of legitimate exposure we could get from posting on the Alla's forums, and possibly getting a special nod on the allas site? probably too much to ask, but im sure there are HUNDREDS of people who would love to play here, just are unaware of it. )

[Taluvill]

I love what Dabamf is saying BTW, great system right there.

Would work perfectly as long as no one would try and be sneaky or do something stupid. With everyone on both sides respecting camps, we'd be good to go with that idea