Raid Changes

[Greldor]

Originally Posted by Taluvill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Would work perfectly as long as no one would try and be sneaky or do something stupid. With everyone on both sides respecting camps, we'd be good to go with that idea

Which is why it will not work.

[Hexsis]

someone has to say it...we are here for classic experience, change nothing...dont mess with spawn times etc, if ib is there and gets the loot then so be it, trans will have to wait till ib gives them some kills/more content...if trans outnumbers them and gets the kill gratz!...leave the gms alone, seriously let them work on more important issues(this will only cause more long term problems, i.e. ddos)...if a guild cheats to get the dps over the other than ban those certain players..

sorry im not very well spoken just worked 13 hours and then came here to see a bunch of people trying to change classic...guilds will have to come up with something, or they will have to fight the dps

[Dabamf]

Originally Posted by Greldor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which is why it will not work.

I included quite a few checks to make it grief proof, such as requiring the competing guild to announce the start time of 2 hours so that both parties know it. If there are other loopholes, feel free to point them out.

[karsten]

Originally Posted by Hexsis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

someone has to say it...we are here for classic experience, change nothing...dont mess with spawn times etc, if ib is there and gets the loot then so be it, trans will have to wait till ib gives them some kills/more content...if trans outnumbers them and gets the kill gratz!...leave the gms alone, seriously let them work on more important issues(this will only cause more long term problems, i.e. ddos)...if a guild cheats to get the dps over the other than ban those certain players..

sorry im not very well spoken just worked 13 hours and then came here to see a bunch of people trying to change classic...guilds will have to come up with something, or they will have to fight the dps

^

[Zarniwooop]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like your spirit, and I think we can all agree. The problem is that trans showed up for a dragon 14 hours early.

They are a zerg guild. If they want to have a rotation of 15 people in a zone at any given time, they have the numbers to do so. What is to stop them from killing nagafen and then leaving 15 people in the zone for a week until he spawns again?

The fact that this is not probable has nothing to do with the fact that it is possible. If it is possible and the system allows it, there is nothing to stop them from doing so. If there is nothing to stop them, there is no reason they shouldn't, and then this becomes a goal. If it happens, no other guild on the server would get a shot at any mob they decide to lock down, ever.

I cannot see how anyone feels this is the best solution.

If they are truly that willing to forgoe life, then the only solution is a spawn rotation. Seriously. There's nothing else to be worked out if that's the way it is. You cannot have a system that calls for two guilds to make "judgment" calls in real time on something. There are only on/off solutions that are clear cut enough to result in the removal of the GM from the equation.

[douglas1999]

Originally Posted by Hexsis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

someone has to say it...we are here for classic experience, change nothing...dont mess with spawn times etc, if ib is there and gets the loot then so be it, trans will have to wait till ib gives them some kills/more content...if trans outnumbers them and gets the kill gratz!...leave the gms alone, seriously let them work on more important issues(this will only cause more long term problems, i.e. ddos)...if a guild cheats to get the dps over the other than ban those certain players..

sorry im not very well spoken just worked 13 hours and then came here to see a bunch of people trying to change classic...guilds will have to come up with something, or they will have to fight the dps

This. The only rule we need in this whole situation is that raid disputes are automatically ignored by GM's unless a blatant exploit is involved. If a guild wants to camp a mob 14 hours in advance, go ahead and do it, but don't be surprised if another determined guild completely disregards your "claim". All of these elaborate systems people are thinking up are never going to be adhered to if implemented, and will just open a whole new can of worms when people inevitably violate some aspect of the agreement.

[Naerron]

While there has been many suggestion, some good some bad, the problem that i am seeing is the vast amount of complexity involved. Having so many variables like, x amount of players, killing x amount of mobs, in x time, with another variable amount of time before mob spqwns is just confusing and with that much going on is just too many chances for people to to fit the criteria and drama to start.

A direction we need to start going with these ideas is to simplistic models. We need to start looking for a method that is objective, providing fairness for all guilds currently involved, and guilds that will become involved. A method that doesn't involve outside enforcement by GMs and wildly unclassic ideas that change the structure of the game.

So think to yourself, what is something simple, fair, and easy to maintain. The answer i come up with is a rotation or FFA models. FFA, which involves the pure dedication of the guilds, and only the guilds. If a guild wants a mob bad enough to camp it for 14 hours, then gratz them, if they camp it for 14 hours and wipe, and the next guild comes in and takes it, that sucks for them but that's how the game worked on live, why should we change it here?

Here are the truths i know.
1) this is an emu sever dedicated to replicating live
2) on live there were camp rules
3) on live there were many rotation set up, none of which involved a GM to reinforce
4) on live KSing as defined in the play nice policy was extended to the camp and the engaged mob

That is the empirical evidence folks, why are we wracking our brains this hard over something so obvious? If rotations don't work because we refuse to be rational, then we let our emotions take over, and sometimes that means a 14 hour camp and a lock down of all raid targets by 1 guild. If nothing else the fact that niblog consulted the community on what to do about this reinforces the notion that this is completely in our (the player base's) hands. So ask yourself, can u stay awake for 14 hours? if not, you can buy dragon loot when we run out of mains and alts to gear =) That is EQ, it's hardcore and life dominating, long live pre instance raiding.

[halfofalmost]

a GM enforced rotation is garbage.

People will devote their time in different ways when it comes to being considered the biggest dick in EverQuest.

The whole calling out another guild on them being zerg-like because of their devotion to the game (albeit by numbers or willingness to camp a mob for "14 hours") is two-sided.

IB allegedly has the better gear and was first to triumph over Nagafen mainly due to the devotion, and TIME spent getting there, of its core players leading up until the actual event itself (i.e. exp, farming gear in SolB, LGuk, leveling etc.)

The true elite in EQ were always the players who played the most (which /TYPICALLY/ = skill). They had the most HP and Mana.

The Rathe had shit like this going on, but it was actually worth something back in 1999. They ended up doing a calendar based on what the guilds would allow (Mostly KEG/CIW/MFH) the other guilds would get their chances etc. But with Kunark still several months away, I think there's plenty of time for two guilds to hammer out the details themselves.

Yea my post jumps all over the place, its 9am and I haven't played in like a month.

[Trimm]

Originally Posted by Dabamf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A guild can only camp and claim one raid mob at a time.

If you are going to enforce any kind of server raid rules, this should be the only one. I have zero vested interested in either guild, and have yet to have a negative experience with either one. If Trans/IB feels they need to camp a spawn for 7 days, go right ahead. That leaves the other two spawns wide open for the taking.

Seems easy enough to enforce as well. A simple /who all fear and if you see 15 IB names, it is camped. The only time a GM should get involved is if there is one guild camping more than one spawn.

I'm from the school of first-in-force wins the spawn, with other guilds getting a chance if the first wipes. If neither guild can accept this, and rules must be inforced, one spawn per guild is the way to go in my opinion.

[Supreme]

Originally Posted by Naerron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While there has been many suggestion, some good some bad, the problem that i am seeing is the vast amount of complexity involved. Having so many variables like, x amount of players, killing x amount of mobs, in x time, with another variable amount of time before mob spqwns is just confusing and with that much going on is just too many chances for people to to fit the criteria and drama to start.

A direction we need to start going with these ideas is to simplistic models. We need to start looking for a method that is objective, providing fairness for all guilds currently involved, and guilds that will become involved. A method that doesn't involve outside enforcement by GMs and wildly unclassic ideas that change the structure of the game.

So think to yourself, what is something simple, fair, and easy to maintain. The answer i come up with is a rotation or FFA models. FFA, which involves the pure dedication of the guilds, and only the guilds. If a guild wants a mob bad enough to camp it for 14 hours, then gratz them, if they camp it for 14 hours and wipe, and the next guild comes in and takes it, that sucks for them but that's how the game worked on live, why should we change it here?

Here are the truths i know.
1) this is an emu sever dedicated to replicating live
2) on live there were camp rules
3) on live there were many rotation set up, none of which involved a GM to reinforce
4) on live KSing as defined in the play nice policy was extended to the camp and the engaged mob

That is the empirical evidence folks, why are we wracking our brains this hard over something so obvious? If rotations don't work because we refuse to be rational, then we let our emotions take over, and sometimes that means a 14 hour camp and a lock down of all raid targets by 1 guild. If nothing else the fact that niblog consulted the community on what to do about this reinforces the notion that this is completely in our (the player base's) hands. So ask yourself, can u stay awake for 14 hours? if not, you can buy dragon loot when we run out of mains and alts to gear =) That is EQ, it's hardcore and life dominating, long live pre instance raiding.

Because IB wants to reinvent the wheel.