Velious Variance Discussion:

[Alarti0001]

So I think this needs to be hashed out.
This is a Pro/Con thread to discover the potential impact and proposed solutions for Variance in Velious.
This should be a healthy discussion for debate on this issue. So please no trolling/name-calling/or other asshattery.


Variance:

This is the forced randomization of raid mob spawn times. This is an artificially created solution to solve the problem of poop-socking. When it was created there was a 15-man on spawn rule-which basically means the first person to sit on RaidMobA's spawn point had claim on that kill.

Effect of Variance on Classic-Kunark:

Variance did limit poopsocking but did not end it. The unforeseen consequence is that raid guilds swelled in size to allow a raid force to be fielded at all hours of the day including constant tracking.

This is a shitty situation but is sustainable in Kunark.


Variance in Velious:

Kunark/Classic Raid mob count: 26 (not including Maestro but including 6VP not really sockable dragons)

Velious Raid mobs: 55(Approx) (not including ToV Entrance dragons or PoG Mini's)

The new raid content will more than double. Ever raid mob wont be able to be locked down... and you cant poopsock Velious raid mobs (other than probably Velk or Wuoshi)

Variance just hurts casual raiders and hardcore raiders alike. Velious will require so much more tracking on targets you can't realistically poopsock anyways, and casual raiders who are less likely to poopsock old world content will need to track for mob spawns.


Proposed Solution:

Remove variance on Old World and Velious encounters upon Velious' release.



/Debate on

[Joroz]

Do away with "classic" windows and go completely random on all raid targets. If there is a guessable window, there is always going to be a guild trying to monopolize everything they can keep track of. This has been proven many times by the community.

[SamwiseRed]

Originally Posted by Joroz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do away with "classic" windows and go completely random on all raid targets. If there is a guessable window, there is always going to be a guild trying to monopolize everything they can keep track of. This has been proven many times by the community.

pretty cool idea actually.

[pharmakos]

Originally Posted by Joroz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do away with "classic" windows and go completely random on all raid targets. If there is a guessable window, there is always going to be a guild trying to monopolize everything they can keep track of. This has been proven many times by the community.

idk, currently 7-day-respawn targets have a 4day+ window size. guilds are already spending over half the week tracking raid targets. if you made it 100% random then they would just have trackers at spawn points 24/7 instead of 24/4

[Joroz]

Originally Posted by pharmakos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

idk, currently 7-day-respawn targets have a 4day+ window size. guilds are already spending over half the week tracking raid targets. if you made it 100% random then they would just have trackers at spawn points 24/7 instead of 24/4

24/7 tracking is brutal for something you have no clue when it will spawn. Random method would favor the pop in tracker or xp groups in the area discovering something is up potentially making raid mobs more accessible to guilds in the right spot at the right time. It would make it extremely hard for guilds to camp out at the next biggest target "due up" when they have no clue which it will be. The so called competition would shift from logging in hoping for FTE to a race on who could mobilize fastest and engage.

[pharmakos]

Originally Posted by Joroz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

24/7 tracking is brutal for something you have no clue when it will spawn. Random method would favor the pop in tracker or xp groups in the area discovering something is up potentially making raid mobs more accessible to guilds in the right spot at the right time. It would make it extremely hard for guilds to camp out at the next biggest target "due up" when they have no clue which it will be. The so called competition would shift from logging in hoping for FTE to a race on who could mobilize fastest and engage.

you're underestimating just how much free time some people have

24/7 tracking would be brutal, but i'm pretty sure TMO et. al would still do it.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The new raid content will more than double. Ever raid mob wont be able to be locked down.

I'm not so sure about that. On the last repop (without any sort of notification) we had 300+ raiders online at once. In Velious that number could easily double as people who quit come back / play more not to mention more and more people joining the server and leveling up. Many of these people will have multiple L60 toons (hell, I have two. Tortue has 4. and so on.). Basically I see Velious being more of the same.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not so sure about that. On the last repop (without any sort of notification) we had 300+ raiders online at once. In Velious that number could easily double as people who quit come back / play more not to mention more and more people joining the server and leveling up. Many of these people will have multiple L60 toons (hell, I have two. Tortue has 4. and so on.). Basically I see Velious being more of the same.

How long does it take to mobilize for a mob in Velious compared to Kunark. How long does it take to kill a Velious mob compared to Kunark.

HUGE differences IMO.

[pasi]

While I don't think you're going to be able to lock down every single mob - I do believe the 5-7 day spawn (most of the desirable mobs in Velious) are able to be locked down.

Yeah, stuff like Vindicator (short spawns like Chardok Royals) won't be locked down, but I can guarantee you every ST key mob, Tormax, NToV, Statue (eventual cycle), revamp CT, and Dozekar are going to suffer the same fate as we've seen before.

I've got no idea how Dain is going to work though. It's one of those things where he's either gonna be in a perma flux of 10th rings or turning in his head to Tormax is going to be impossible since everyone wants FTE.

Tunare is also going to be weird with the whole Plane Clearing aspect.

not counting spawned Quest Stuff (Garzicor, 9th Ring stuff, Scout Charisa Stuff)

Quasi-Raid mobs:
Vaniki - PH system
Kelorek Dar
Lodizal - probably shouldn't be included since he's basically the Velious Drusella Sathir.
Dlammaz
Keldor
Philadelphia 76'rs


Raid mobs:
Wuoshi
Gozzrem
Telk
Vindicator
Velketor
Lord Dojo

Plus all old content.

Again, I don't think one guild is going to lockdown everything from AoW to Phinigel, but I do think the server is going to be in a similar state to Kunark now.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While I don't think you're going to be able to lock down every single mob - I do believe the 5-7 day spawn (most of the desirable mobs in Velious) are able to be locked down.

Yeah, stuff like Vindicator (short spawns like Chardok Royals) won't be locked down, but I can guarantee you every ST key mob, Tormax, NToV, Statue (eventual cycle), revamp CT, and Dozekar are going to suffer the same fate as we've seen before.

I've got no idea how Dain is going to work though. It's one of those things where he's either gonna be in a perma flux of 10th rings or turning in his head to Tormax is going to be impossible since everyone wants FTE.

Tunare is also going to be weird with the whole Plane Clearing aspect.

not counting spawned Quest Stuff (Garzicor, 9th Ring stuff, Scout Charisa Stuff)

Quasi-Raid mobs:
Vaniki - PH system
Kelorek Dar
Lodizal - probably shouldn't be included since he's basically the Velious Drusella Sathir.
Dlammaz
Keldor
Philadelphia 76'rs


Raid mobs:
Wuoshi
Gozzrem
Telk
Vindicator
Velketor
Lord Dojo

Plus all old content.

Again, I don't think one guild is going to lockdown everything from AoW to Phinigel, but I do think the server is going to be in a similar state to Kunark now.

Am I correct in saying that Variance was designed to prevent poopsocking and not to prevent 1 guild from locking down content?