Raid Rule Madness

[Fael]

I just read that thread that derebeal felt the need to needlessly censor. It seriously boggles my mind why all these guilds and the GM's are arguing about the irrelevant minutia involved with pointing out any person whatsover that got on the hate list.

The issue is not people being on the hate list, the issue is a guild deliberately pulling the dragon to their raid force, and then killing it when they KNOW they have not secured FTE.

Who cares if "the mages are on there because of their pets" or if "BDA mages are COTHing bards 40+ seconds" later? No, those mages shouldn't be camping (COTH is easier), but even if they feel like being retards by extending the initial FTE, it doesn't become raid interference until some affirmative act occurs that rises to the level or a stall or a train way. Now, if any of those people got on the top of the aggro list like Theya and ran away from the dragon... that is another issue.

Why is golden throwing a jav a full twenty seconds after the intial FTE message? Probably because it was either a mistake or he thought aggro dropped at that instant and took a gamble to secure FTE (dragon movement is hard to judge). Since he took a gamble and failed, TMO hardly has room to complain about an extended FTE. What they do have room to complain about--what all guilds can complain about-- is a Taken guild leader deciding to pull and kill the dragon knowing full well they had no FTE.

Yes, "there were so many mistakes made here" and yes "it's clear that there are many people who don't understand"--not what this encounter log shows, but what real raid interference is--namely, deliberately aggroing a dragon and running it to your guilds camp to slay when you know you don't have FTE. There is no raid interference when a few people from various guilds find themselves on the encounter log in good faith. Even if it was after some ridiculous interpretation of the rules, it in no way absolves Taken of their deliberate "goof ups," where they make a multi-minute pull and engagement all the while knowing full well that they are breaking the rules.

You have made some very good decisions, but this one is a bad one.


Dolic
__________________

[Samoht]

half of the reason most of those people were even on the aggro list to begin with was that taken actually broke another raid rule - they trained the dragon on top of someone else's raid force. taken was required to move their raid force somewhere else and did not.

multiple infractions here and no punishment.

[Thana8088]

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We can't hear you.

[Nirgon]

Dragons are left up on red atm.

No angsty wheelchair drivers in sight. Yet.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dragons are left up on red atm.

No angsty wheelchair drivers in sight. Yet.

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[TMBLOW]

Originally Posted by Fael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why is golden throwing a jav a full twenty seconds after the intial FTE message? Probably because it was either a mistake or he thought aggro dropped at that instant and took a gamble to secure FTE (dragon movement is hard to judge). Since he took a gamble and failed, TMO hardly has room to complain about an extended FTE.

this part is my fav

Poor lil Golden had the best and most sincere intentions when he threw that Jav.....you CANT BLAME HIM!!!!!!!!

bias much?

also the AE/Fear doesnt put you on the hate list.....Theya could have ran circles around the 150 people at the TT zone and none of them would have been on the hate list unless they did something to get the dragons attention

[Thana8088]

Originally Posted by TMBLOW [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this part is my fav

Poor lil Golden had the best and most sincere intentions when he threw that Jav.....you CANT BLAME HIM!!!!!!!!

bias much?

also the AE/Fear doesnt put you on the hate list.....Theya could have ran circles around the 150 people at the TT zone and none of them would have been on the hate list unless they did something to get the dragons attention

Why wouldn't an FTE-er throw a jav to try and get FTE? You know there is no "FTE WAS LOST" message, right?

I do believe this calls for a derp.

[Fael]

Originally Posted by TMBLOW [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Poor lil Golden had the best and most sincere intentions when he threw that Jav.....you CANT BLAME HIM!!!!!!!!

You missed the point. Why does it matter at all?

"the reason most of those people were even on the aggro list to begin with was that taken actually broke another raid rule - they trained the dragon"

This also seems laregly irrelevant, as theya, as i understand it, never lost aggro; therefore, the dragon "wasn't trained." Part of the reason why this has probably been a confusing issue to deal with by GM's, are that the guilds themselves bringing the complaint don't have a clue either. Continual hammering of this point only causes confusion as to the real issues.

Dolic

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Fael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"the reason most of those people were even on the aggro list to begin with was that taken actually broke another raid rule - they trained the dragon"

This also seems laregly irrelevant, as theya, as i understand it, never lost aggro; therefore, the dragon "wasn't trained." Part of the reason why this has probably been a confusing issue to deal with by GM's, are that the guilds themselves bringing the complaint don't have a clue either. Continual hammering of this point only causes confusion as to the real issues.

Dolic

you can call it a pull if you want, but the issue doesn't change. you're not allowed to set up your camp on top of someone else's raid. when you pull your target ontop of someone else's raid, you are effectively training them, independent of whether or not you are successful.

taken broke several rules on this pull.

Originally Posted by Just facts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That clearly showed that the Taken guild FTE player was 11 sec ahead of the next FTE attempt to attack the dragon before TMO.

because everybody else was respecting the FTE message. lol.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by Fael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just read that thread that derebeal felt the need to needlessly censor. It seriously boggles my mind why all these guilds and the GM's are arguing about the irrelevant minutia involved with pointing out any person whatsover that got on the hate list.

The issue is not people being on the hate list, the issue is a guild deliberately pulling the dragon to their raid force, and then killing it when they KNOW they have not secured FTE.

Who cares if "the mages are on there because of their pets" or if "BDA mages are COTHing bards 40+ seconds" later? No, those mages shouldn't be camping (COTH is easier), but even if they feel like being retards by extending the initial FTE, it doesn't become raid interference until some affirmative act occurs that rises to the level or a stall or a train way. Now, if any of those people got on the top of the aggro list like Theya and ran away from the dragon... that is another issue.

Why is golden throwing a jav a full twenty seconds after the intial FTE message? Probably because it was either a mistake or he thought aggro dropped at that instant and took a gamble to secure FTE (dragon movement is hard to judge). Since he took a gamble and failed, TMO hardly has room to complain about an extended FTE. What they do have room to complain about--what all guilds can complain about-- is a Taken guild leader deciding to pull and kill the dragon knowing full well they had no FTE.

Yes, "there were so many mistakes made here" and yes "it's clear that there are many people who don't understand"--not what this encounter log shows, but what real raid interference is--namely, deliberately aggroing a dragon and running it to your guilds camp to slay when you know you don't have FTE. There is no raid interference when a few people from various guilds find themselves on the encounter log in good faith. Even if it was after some ridiculous interpretation of the rules, it in no way absolves Taken of their deliberate "goof ups," where they make a multi-minute pull and engagement all the while knowing full well that they are breaking the rules.

You have made some very good decisions, but this one is a bad one.


Dolic
__________________

everyone knows this is true, which is why this is still an issue 3 days later

especially when the guild leader who made the decision truly believes they're allowed to break the rules because someone else broke a rule first. (AG getting FTE with a tracker = gofull retard apparently)

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When did I try to pass this off as a benevolent act? Everyone involved in the situation is equally guilty, and that's the part you are trying to ignore. Kindly refrain from putting words in my mouth, thank you!

We petitioned it immediately. We didn't try to hide anything. The entire situation was a clusterfuck and multiple guilds were doing things they should not have been doing, including an illegal FTE situation that never existed in the previous rules thrown into the mix. THAT is what you are trying to completely ignore, and instead focus on the one incident in this complicated situation that benefits you the most.

Nothing left to say. Have fun.