I got into an argument with a friend at a LAN party...

[Jimjam]

Someone else pulls over our group and some of the mobs aggro onto us.

Are we allowed to kill these mobs in self defence or would we be kill stealing?

[Doctor Jeff]

If the mobs aggro you, you have a right to defend yourself, but if they are just passing through, then that's kill stealing.

small anecdote:

I was PLing a character in mistmoore on the ledge and because of crappy pathing, my mobs would sometimes path through the CE. (one at a time, the character I was pulling with was level 60)
I spam clicked my flux staff (easily 25-30 times)for insane aggro and then watched the ranger in the CE group cast 5+ snares trying to get aggro before rooting my mob and then doing a /shout similar to "whoever is training CE, I have sent a petition"
Guide showed up, I explained what was going on, the guide disappeared, and I didn't have trouble with the CE trying to root my mobs anymore.
(if you pull from cy to ledge they path through the castle and climb up the wall)

So it really depends on how you got aggro.
Did you guys generate the aggro, or was it proximity?
Did the other party attempt to regain control of their mobs?
Did you give them a chance to try to rectify the situation?

[Tupakk]

Kind of a gray area. I personally would kill it and say to the person that pulled it to pay more attention to pathing or take a different direction.

[Swish]

A similar case of this was one time grouped at Mistmoore at the castle entrance. Zone was busy, as Mistmoore is.

A group of 6 appears that decides without saying anything they're going to move inside the castle entrance and pull where the first 2 gargoyles spawn. I continue pulling (on my SK), then start getting shitty messages from them. Short of rooting they try to do everything to aggro every mob I'm pulling so they can say it attacked them, but after 2-3 disease clouds you aren't pulling it off, sorry...

Anyway they ended up pulling the bigger room with the negotiator room in, but taking it through the back entrance past 4 gargoyles and the gypsies...and wipe themselves. Obviously its instinctive when that hits for some of hte group to try and zone. So all these mobs come past us as the biggest dbag among them tries to escape, and dies.

They path back, we dismantle it as we were in good shape and we get petitioned for

1. Training them.
2. Kill stealing.

So to recap. A group moves in, pulls the mobs we were pulling, tries to aggro mobs we had already pulled, trains out and wipes, then petitions us for killing "their" mobs.

That's who you're dealing with on blue server sometimes. In terms of the context of this thread - they moved in ahead of us knowing we were pulling from in there. Despite careful pulling, it creates a shit show.

[Vidar]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A similar case of this was one time grouped at Mistmoore at the castle entrance. Zone was busy, as Mistmoore is.

A group of 6 appears that decides without saying anything they're going to move inside the castle entrance and pull where the first 2 gargoyles spawn. I continue pulling (on my SK), then start getting shitty messages from them. Short of rooting they try to do everything to aggro every mob I'm pulling so they can say it attacked them, but after 2-3 disease clouds you aren't pulling it off, sorry...

Anyway they ended up pulling the bigger room with the negotiator room in, but taking it through the back entrance past 4 gargoyles and the gypsies...and wipe themselves. Obviously its instinctive when that hits for some of hte group to try and zone. So all these mobs come past us as the biggest dbag among them tries to escape, and dies.

They path back, we dismantle it as we were in good shape and we get petitioned for

1. Training them.
2. Kill stealing.

So to recap. A group moves in, pulls the mobs we were pulling, tries to aggro mobs we had already pulled, trains out and wipes, then petitions us for killing "their" mobs.

That's who you're dealing with on blue server sometimes. In terms of the context of this thread - they moved in ahead of us knowing we were pulling from in there. Despite careful pulling, it creates a shit show.

And on Red this is never an issue because you will be soloing...Ghost town...

Hi Swish. There are dbags on both servers. stop trying to say that red is better than blue. Numbers dont lie.

[Doctor Jeff]

Originally Posted by Vidar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And on Red this is never an issue because you will be soloing...Ghost town...

Hi Swish. There are dbags on both servers. stop trying to say that red is better than blue. Numbers dont lie.

not actually true, my anecdote was from red.


btw pvp servers were always 1/7 to 1/5 the pop of pve servers on live.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Vidar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hi Swish. There are dbags on both servers. stop trying to say that red is better than blue. Numbers dont lie.

I just realized something this morning: Swish is Red's Don Quixote! Why not just let him keep trying to fight windmills (convert Blue players) and rescue prostitutes (rescue Red)?

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
(Swish looking for new Red players; sorry, couldn't find an animated one)

[kotton05]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A similar case of this was one time grouped at Mistmoore at the castle entrance. Zone was busy, as Mistmoore is.

A group of 6 appears that decides without saying anything they're going to move inside the castle entrance and pull where the first 2 gargoyles spawn. I continue pulling (on my SK), then start getting shitty messages from them. Short of rooting they try to do everything to aggro every mob I'm pulling so they can say it attacked them, but after 2-3 disease clouds you aren't pulling it off, sorry...

Anyway they ended up pulling the bigger room with the negotiator room in, but taking it through the back entrance past 4 gargoyles and the gypsies...and wipe themselves. Obviously its instinctive when that hits for some of hte group to try and zone. So all these mobs come past us as the biggest dbag among them tries to escape, and dies.

They path back, we dismantle it as we were in good shape and we get petitioned for

1. Training them.
2. Kill stealing.

So to recap. A group moves in, pulls the mobs we were pulling, tries to aggro mobs we had already pulled, trains out and wipes, then petitions us for killing "their" mobs.

That's who you're dealing with on blue server sometimes. In terms of the context of this thread - they moved in ahead of us knowing we were pulling from in there. Despite careful pulling, it creates a shit show.

While people criticize swish. This post is spot on.

I've had this happen a few times to me and overall it's a huge grey area whether it's malicious or accidental. Both look the same. I dunno how a GM would look at this. Its prolly almost case by case. Just don't do nothing you don't want a GM to see. If a group continues to pull thru you then maybe move to a diff spot /shrug. I think if they aggro you it's fair game to protect yourself and if the other group wanted them bad enough the puller would sink more aggro into them as to not lose the mob to sit aggro.

On the other side if your fighting in an area that could have traffic you might wanna re-eval the fight spot. But shit happens.

[Jimjam]

To muddy the water some of the aggro we took may have been due to us PBAoEing (farming tradeskill components).

We tried to avoid the situation by moving into the zone a bit on a hill thereby making sure we were visible to other pullers.

[Littlestgnome]

I suppose in my mind it comes down to who was in the area first as they are the ones with the established presence. Assuming that's me, I feel a greater obligation to my own group than I do to somebody else's group and/or feelings.

It seems to me it's always the second party's responsibility to initiate communication so as to preemptively avoid such issues in the first place. If they're not doing that, I'm going to say 9/10 times they're the ones at fault either by accident or by design. I'd like to think the GMs would see it that way as well. Perhaps they will not, but that's a risk I'm willing to take.