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#1
10-07-2019, 01:20 PM
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Something to tank about
I’ve noticed, in several other threads, that people seem confused about class power rankings and overall usefulness for leveling. This seems to be especially true when discussing hybrid classes such as Rangers, Shadow Knights and Paladins. So let’s chat a bit about Tanking classes to clear these misunderstandings up.
Best to worst tanks. #1. Shadow Knight (SK) - By far the most effective tank due to the spells Disease Cloud, Clinging Darkness and some say Shadow Vortex (But, I’ve never found that useful). SK’s are one button wonders. All they do is spam their lowest level darkness spell (20 mana snare), and maybe a Disease Cloud (10 mana), to keep the mobs attention. Players that can effectively master the one button rotation may, however, find themselves in precarious situations such as: accidently joining the wrong group, apologizing for already having a group and the awkwardness of telling people your friends list is full. There are, however, some benefits such as: wizard does not have to wait forever to nuke, charm/pet classes being able to send their pets in immediately and the healers being able to sit down to med. As a bonus, both Troll’s and Ogre’s can be SK’s with their over-the-top stats and innate abilities. The incurred experience penalties due race and/or class are easily overcome by the rate at which you will be killing with an SK in your group (seriously, who FD pulls??). Overall, SK is a “Slam” dunk. Nuff said. #2 Ranger – What????? Yeah, it’s the Ranger. The second on my list of effective tanks is probably the most under-rated of them all. Effective AC is the name of the game, and since Banded Mail will likely be “in-game” day 1, it’s impossible to ignore the agro-whores of EQ. With only 3 less dodge and 15 less parry than the Warrior (@50), the only thing that hinders a Ranger is the inability to wear plate armor at later levels (Oh! and no race that can slam). Some people will claim that Rangers are nothing but gimped Warriors, but give a Ranger a Fire Beetle Eye and watch the Warrior’s cry. Flame lick, a 10 mana spell, is arguably the best snap-agro spell in the game. So much so, that guild’s frequently use Ranger’s for mobs that have Death Touch timers (hence the “Ranger Down” meme we all remember). Furthermore, this amazing ability to hold agro is just the tip of the iceberg. Being ¼ Druid, the Ranger can also root CC (great for pulling as well), snare runners, buff/DS himself, SoW the entire group and even track mobs as they pop. Have a problem with people stealing your pulls? Not happening in a Ranger’s group. The only reason they aren’t listed as number 1 is end game AC, but who’s going to be wearing a full set of plate on their first character anyway? Stamina means very little when it comes down to it, maybe 100-200 hp’s @ 50 and keep in mind that Sol Ro is a long way off, so no Crafted/Ro or BF for you! #3 Paladin – Number 3 on my list is by far the hardest to master. People tend to remember the chain stunning Paladin’s in all their glory, but this won’t be the case on Green Server. Until the Paladin gets his first stun spell at 30, the level 9 Flash of Light spell (FoL) is their primary means of agro (and here is where the “skill” comes into play). FoL by definition is a fear spell, and as advertised it fears, but if the Paladin is able to maintain a position within 5’ of the mob the spell serves instead as a high agro taunt. Unfortunately, unlike the Rangers Flame Lick and the SK’s Clinging Darkness, FoL has no damage over time effect so the mob must be constantly engaged to be effective (and, of course, to prevent the mob from running to his friends). Most well played Paladin’s never stop using this spell, even after acquiring their stun line, since it is “bar none” the most effective means for the Paladin to maintain agro (tossing in a Yaulp here and there). Also, in addition to snap-agro, these ¼ Cleric “Battle Priest” have an arsenal of useful spells/abilities at their disposal. They can Lull for pulls, nuke undead, heal/buff their party, wear plate and eventually they even get the ability to revive their fallen comrades (though this is so late in the game that it can’t be a PRO for leveling). And let’s not forget their Lay on Hands (LoH) ability. An additional means of snapping agro, this massive heal can turn a wipe into a “Hell Yeah,” moment in a blink of an eye. Having this button by your group window will gain you a LOT of esteem in your Cleric and Enchanter circles, and eventually be valued in raids as well. #4 Mage Pets – Want a Warrior that roots, procs damage, stuns AND taunts every tick? Then a Magician’s pet is probably the right choice for you. Sure, a Magician isn’t a tank or even a hybrid for that matter, but his pet certainly qualifies. Pets can wear any armor, use any weapon, have innate procs, a 6 second taunt timer, are fully buff-able and you can’t toss a pebble (malachite in this case) without hitting its replacement. Pets will attack or back off as you command, never have to bail because of wife agro, never AFK, never loot, and like a stalker, always seem to have the same play times as you do. But, unlike a stalker, if you’re tired of playing with it you can just tell it to get lost without worrying about what to say when you see it again. Look at it like a master/slave relationship. Want it to sit in one spot or follow you around, then just tell it to. Like it the other way around? Give it some whips. Sounding pretty awesome huh? Unfortunately, pets do have some drawbacks. They tend to be experience-whores and can barely do anything without you telling them to. Mine are always wandering off in the wrong direction and have selective hearing when I ask them to come back. I can’t take them on our walks through public dungeons without them hitting on everyone they meet and I often have to dismiss them until we are alone and making camp. I should mention that my pets get pretty jealous when someone beats on me instead of them, so keep that in mind at certain parties. #5 Warrior – The high maintenance tank. No snap agro, no provoke, broken taunt button and a very limited selection of proc weapons makes this tank the absolute worst tank on the list. Sure, you could look at it like a Monk pet for DPS purposes or maybe you want one for raids later, but as a leveling tank…bleh. This list is all about effective tanking while leveling and the only positive thing I can say about it is “It gets an experience bonus!” No disciplines to help leveling, completely gear dependent for everything and has practically no ability to save a healer or enchanter if shit hits the fan. Sure, it can work at a very slow pace, but from my experiences people don’t play this game at impulse speed and the group is going to be heavily reliant upon the Enchanter’s charm pet and the Cleric having 2 DA’s up at all times to survive. Trying to think of something to ease the tension, but nothing is coming to mind. IMHO, A Warrior at launch is basically just extra baggage only a guild mother could love. Hell, they aren’t even going to be the best tanks for raids until April 2020. Well, I suppose you could add Monk or even an Enchanter’s charm pet to this list but you get the idea. It’s all downhill from here. With very little Planar gear to spread around at the end (only the Plane of Fear for the first 6 months?), and that gear being class specific, there really isn’t much point taking the end game into consideration yet(talking to you Warriors). Anyway, feel free to flame away below. Peace, Love and Cosmic Bunnies. | ||
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#2
10-07-2019, 01:51 PM
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Pretty much everyone who wants plate armor on a fresh server will be able to get bronze by the mid 20's if they want it. Rangers have to wait another ten levels or so for Rubicite. Rangers can wear shields while acting as tanks but seldom do so. The tank role kind of plays against the class's other strengths. Paladins are the most defensive-minded of the tank types, and tend to get better as the rest of the group gets weaker. In particular they shine in groups which don't have a Cleric healing. Warriors' aggro generation problems are typically solved either with click items (raids) or with liberal use of root (groups). They have the highest innate health and damage reduction of any class and deal good damage on par with (superior to, if berserk) a Ranger. ------------------------------------- In addition to the above comments, practical reality must warrant consideration as well: Regardless of how effectively Rangers can tank, few pick-up groups will invite them for that purpose ahead of any of the other tank types. As with so many things in life, public perception often affects outcomes more than the actual reality of something does. Danth | |||
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#4
10-07-2019, 02:20 PM
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Actually SK are the best in weak groups because they can snare/ fear mobs. Any group that needs the tank to spend lots of mana to be effective (i.e., healing) is a crap group that will have lots of downtime. Paladin is a great class, but in most areas an SK is better. Warrior agro problems are never solved, only partially mitigated. IIRC a war w/ 255 dex dual-wielding procs will still have to wait on average something like 10s between procs. This means slowers can't slow w/o getting beat, and mezd mobs need to be rooted. Root helps, but it can't be relied on due to breaks and lazy casters. As for root nets, no warrior is going to be using a root click every mob, and so it doesn't solve anything. | |||
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#5
10-07-2019, 02:33 PM
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#6
10-07-2019, 02:45 PM
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Last edited by sciception; 10-07-2019 at 02:47 PM..
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#7
10-07-2019, 02:51 PM
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If you're a higher level SK and you aren't using Shadow Vortex to keep up with agro buildup on mes'd mobs so that when their turn is up all that you need is a Disease Cloud to wake them up and they're stuck on you?
Well, I don't think you're playing an SK very well... | ||
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Last edited by Tenlaar; 10-07-2019 at 02:53 PM..
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#8
10-07-2019, 02:57 PM
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Sure this makes sense, but again, not necessary most of the time. Sounds like a mana drain when you could have used darkness and taunt. 40 mana a cast, I assure you I wouldn't use that to break every mezz. Only the dangerous ones like maybe The Froglok King or something that could kill my Enchanter. Probably not even then. | |||
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#9
10-08-2019, 12:08 PM
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SV is the most and quickest snap aggro, even more than DC. Clinging isn’t bad, but the other two are better. All are very low mana. In a good group the SK should either pull or tank, usually not both (unless you’ve split the spawns). I think the best crypt/emp groups I was ever in had both SK and warrior. SK is a great puller and more than good enough tank for crypt, but in a really good group the puller doesn’t stick around for the fight anyways. Leveling up, Paladin stuns are amazing. Post 50 they peter out and in higher level camps they just straight up don’t work. Warriors are good DPS, they have high skill caps for offensive and defensive abilities. They’ll never match a rogue because they can’t BS, but a warrior behind the mob is a good DPS contributor.
__________________
 Myuharin <Force of Will> & Myuharin the Revenant Quote:
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Last edited by uygi; 10-08-2019 at 12:12 PM..
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#10
10-07-2019, 03:03 PM
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Its most obvious and popular use is building hate on mesmerized targets. This doesn't merely save the Enchanter from being hit, it also saves his rune spell and hence saves him money. They appreciate that. As a corollary you also use it on targets which might have to be mesmerized, such as pulls where you know in advance that you might get adds you have to switch to mid-battle (obvious but far from only example is hate breaks where you might get golems adding in). for the same reason it's also the go-to spell for aggro'ing loose mobs that haven't been controlled yet. Don't you HATE it when some brain-dead SK dots multiple monsters making 'em almost unmezzable for duration? In addition to the above in P99's past Shadow Vortex got used for building aggro on rooted but non-engaged creatures. Snare didn't stack with root in the original game, and on P99 if a spell couldn't land (as opposed to a resist) it built no aggro, hence Clinging couldn't be used for that purpose (this aggro mechanic may have been changed--we'll see). You don't use Disease Cloud on rooted targets since the direct damage component can and does break root. The easily-kept and readily-applied buff component acts as a low-maintenance junk buff in an era where clicky-related junk buffs are not easily obtained. I really hate it when symbol of naltron gets dispelled. Doesn't everyone? Calling a mode of gameplay mediocre isn't an insult. Mediocre will by definition get the job done most the time. It's not wholly ineffective. It simply means the player who operates it in that fashion won't be getting the most out of his character in more advanced situations. Groups can invite a mediocre SK and usually beat the content. However the good player will distinguish himself. EDIT: Greldor is right about the AE. It's low-aggro but situationally useful for rounding up packs on incoming. It tends to not be used much, and even then usually not for many levels after it's first learned, so many players forget about it entirely. Danth | |||
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Last edited by Danth; 10-07-2019 at 03:06 PM..
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