Regarding major changes

[kanras]

I wanted to address something from another thread.

Originally Posted by baalzy

I'm still playing and enjoying it. But I'd have to say if I do quit it'll be because of sweeping mechanics changes that don't appear to be tested at all before being patched in and then left broken for weeks at a time.

Tuning things to make them like classic, implementing mechanics that should have been there, those are fine. But it doesn't seem like even the slightest bit of testing is being performed to ensure that these changes are behaving the way they're expected to.

I, of course, would agree completely that more testing is better. And I do apologize for those unintended nerfs that people have had to endure.

Regardless, if you have weathered the storm of the last few patches, then it's relatively smooth sailing from here on out. These were the last major negative changes on my list. So hopefully we can work together on ironing out any remaining issues. I think you'll find a much more classic feel when all is said and done.

[kanras]

Just to give you an idea of how my time spent is allocated on this project, this is my best guess:

Research: 70%
Testing: 25%
Implementing: 5%

But there's really only so much I can catch when testing, and that's usually limited to what changes were intended. I always try to correct the unintended consequences as quickly as possible, as I hope you folks have realized by now.

[Rais]

Thank you for this post. I would just like to say,there is a small batch of people willing to test new changes before they go live. Sure there wernt that many for kunark beta,but there are people willing to do the dirty work on a test server for simulated patches to make sure the patch is doing what is intended.

The biggest issues people have with patches,isn't the nerfs. It's the bugs that happen when coding is changed and things are jacked up for 2 weeks or longer. It stuff that effectively changes a class's ability and we have to work through making bug posts and hope for a response or a shrug of the shoulders assuming we are wrong in what we see. Many things aren't even replied on in the bug section on issues.

You have been doing updates on things you work on,and thats wonderful. But there is other stuff that players have no idea if the list of things being worked on needs more info,or just put on the back burner. So we don't know as the player base what we can do to help you guys. You have an army of EQ nerds willing to help make it easier for you!

In short

Bring up the test server again,have people test what you are fixing or changing,and have the test server stimulate the patch. Use the people who want to help and make it easier over all for the devs. It's a ton of stuff to do with just a few devs. So I'm sure you're putting in tons of time. Just make use of the people wanting to help.

[kanras]

Originally Posted by Rais [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The biggest issues people have with patches,isn't the nerfs. It's the bugs that happen when coding is changed and things are jacked up for 2 weeks or longer.

Yes, it does suck. But I would hope that when unintended things get jacked up and make things harder between one patch and the next (when it gets fixed), you could take into consideration that in most cases it was jacked up in your favor for the last 20 months.

Bring up the test server again,have people test what you are fixing or changing,and have the test server stimulate the patch. Use the people who want to help and make it easier over all for the devs. It's a ton of stuff to do with just a few devs. So I'm sure you're putting in tons of time. Just make use of the people wanting to help.

Other than testing of content, I would make the case that the test server didn't accomplish much. But again, there's nothing else on the horizon of this magnitude.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by kanras [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, it does suck. But I would hope that when unintended things get jacked up and make things harder between one patch and the next (when it gets fixed), you could take into consideration that in most cases it was jacked up in your favor for the last 20 months.

Geez, where was I for this? Oh yeah, playing... you guys seem to always fall on the side of nerfing our butts when there's even a slight choice. It's just a perception that the population has and has been there for the entire time I've played. I love your posts in this thread though, and everyone is human we know and we don't assign MUCH blame.

What I don't understand is, why not just patch in everything that happened up till Velious, right away? We KNOW what the patch history is, we know what they wanted to do with Classic. Just put it all in at once!! (except nerfed items ofc, leave them in with the proper timeline.) And all will be gumdrops and roses.

First they nerfed the druids, and I didn't speak out because I was not a druid.
Then they nerfed the mages, and I didn't speak out because I was not a mage.
Then they nerfed the monks, and I didn't speak out because I was not a monk.
Then they nerfed me, and there was no one left to speak out for me.

[formallydickman]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First they nerfed the druids, and I didn't speak out because I was not a druid.
Then they nerfed the mages, and I didn't speak out because I was not a mage.
Then they nerfed the monks, and I didn't speak out because I was not a monk.
Then they nerfed me, and there was no one left to speak out for me.

You should probably take a step back and realize how ridiculous you sound : /

[Slave]

Originally Posted by formallydickman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should probably take a step back and realize how ridiculous you sound : /

I know; there's still the holy trinity, right? Let's just all be warriors, clerics, and enchanters.

[Trademaster]

Originally Posted by formallydickman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should probably take a step back and realize how ridiculous you sound : /

It's an adaptation of a famous quote by Martin Niemöller. Learn history.

[kanras]

Originally Posted by Slave

What I don't understand is, why not just patch in everything that happened up till Velious, right away? We KNOW what the patch history is, we know what they wanted to do with Classic. Just put it all in at once!! (except nerfed items ofc, leave them in with the proper timeline.) And all will be gumdrops and roses.

If there were a switch to flip, it would have been done Oct. 2009. You're severely underestimating the time it takes (mostly in research) a handful of people to reverse engineer all of these formulas.

Originally Posted by Fist_the_Lord

My biggest problem isn't the bugs, even though i have multiple toons in erudin that can't leave without a port because the skiff is broken, which by the way, i notice 3 GM's posting here, but no posts from any of you in the thread about the skiff being broken.... but not a single response on the skiff. Honestly, don't you think thats kinda bullshit?

I spent an hour trying to recreate the erudin shuttle bug on my test server about 30 minutes after the post first went up. The shuttle worked consistently. I tried a blind fix in this patch for what I thought might have been causing the problem. It apparently didn't work. Unless the bug gets fixed, there's no point in me addressing it. The reality is still that you'll have to petition or swim out to the boat yourself in order to get to Qeynos.

[fauxreigner]

Out of curiosity, without a working live server circa 2001, how do you reverse engineer these formulae to actually be classic?