Best Trio That Doesn't Use Enchanter

[Toxigen]

No enchanters allowed because lets face it they're way too powerful.

I'll start:

Necro / Shaman / Monk

All iksar, start together at level 1, bigly RP lizardbros, can do well with low budget twinking or self-found, great off-meta Kunark leveling route.

There you go DSM, you finally got your Shaman in a "Best Group" hypothetical.

[Ripqozko]

necro necro cleric, keep to undead charm spots once able

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll start:

Necro / Shaman / Monk.

100% agree

The synergy there is out of this world.

[Rimitto]

Ranger / Cleric / Bard

It's a surprisingly decent combination. I don't know if it's "the best", but it's relatively sturdy since the ranger can handle pulling with harmony and roots usually, the bard is buffing, mana pumping, and support dps.

Cleric can usually handle around the same level at this point, so there's only a real need to "stop" pulling when the bard needs to mana pump from a bad pull.

That's my view from a cleric point anyways. I've had decently good parties with this type of setup. You can replace the ranger with paladin or shadowknight too, but they tend to pull slower or rely on the bard to pull.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Rimitto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ranger / Cleric / Bard

It's a surprisingly decent combination. I don't know if it's "the best", but it's relatively sturdy since the ranger can handle pulling with harmony and roots usually, the bard is buffing, mana pumping, and support dps.

I don't think this can compete with monk/shaman/necro as "best", but I bet it would be a ton of fun. Some of the most fun I've had in EQ was in a static trio enchanter/cleric/bard where I played the cleric, although a lot of that was because the other players were cool, chill people, and we all were on discord so could easily coordinate what we each were doing on bad pulls.

But, like, you could probably swap the cleric to a necro, as then you have great bard/necro synergy and still plenty of healing power. And then if you swap the bard for a shaman, you'll improve the burst healing, have better haste and slow, still have good synergy with the necro with regen. And for pulling/tanking/dps the monk is probably better, albeit with less utility.

I wonder what bard/shaman/necro would be like. You'd be able to shift health and mana around in an unparalleled fashion. But when what do you do with all that mana? One scenario I'd love to see would be the bard pulling a whole mess of mobs and kiting them around with the aoe snare. Then necro and shaman can root-cc, dropping splurt and shaman epic on each. Would be messy and chaotic but I bet the dps would be off the charts.

Edit: Ah, splurt and shaman epic don't stack. Too bad.

[Rimitto]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think this can compete with monk/shaman/necro as "best", but I bet it would be a ton of fun. Some of the most fun I've had in EQ was in a static trio enchanter/cleric/bard where I played the cleric, although a lot of that was because the other players were cool, chill people, and we all were on discord so could easily coordinate what we each were doing on bad pulls.

But, like, you could probably swap the cleric to a necro, as then you have great bard/necro synergy and still plenty of healing power. And then if you swap the bard for a shaman, you'll improve the burst healing, have better haste and slow, still have good synergy with the necro with regen. And for pulling/tanking/dps the monk is probably better, albeit with less utility.

I wonder what bard/shaman/necro would be like. You'd be able to shift health and mana around in an unparalleled fashion. But when what do you do with all that mana? One scenario I'd love to see would be the bard pulling a whole mess of mobs and kiting them around with the aoe snare. Then necro and shaman can root-cc, dropping splurt and shaman epic on each. Would be messy and chaotic but I bet the dps would be off the charts.

Edit: Ah, splurt and shaman epic don't stack. Too bad.

You just agreed and replaced the entire party 1 class at a time [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
It's not even the same anymore lol.

Cleric with ranger and bard has solid synergy, not only in the fact that it's protected by some good defensive and HP buffs, but also superior healing, as well as bard buffs to further reinforce the hardyness and dps of the party, as well as mana for cleric.

I'm not trying to downplay your shaman, necro strats, but there's just not that much actual synergy or options between it.
Necro has 1 buff, DMF.. and 1 mana regen "twitch" which only the shaman can benefit from. It's jenky.

Cleric and Ranger both benefit from mana pumping bard, same with strengthening songs, and both bard and ranger benefit from cleric buffs, same with ranger stuff like roots or harmony, both cleric and bard benefit.

It's just a matter that there's WAY MORE synergy in the build I proposed. If you replaced the ranger and cleric with shaman and necro it wouldn't be able to handle as much, and would be more limited, but possibly more lethal, but still more limited.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Rimitto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not trying to downplay your shaman, necro strats, but there's just not that much actual synergy or options between it.
Necro has 1 buff, DMF.. and 1 mana regen "twitch" which only the shaman can benefit from. It's jenky.

What?

Shamans turn hp into mana. Shamans can turn mana into hp (heals). Necros turn hp into mana. Necros turn mana into heals via taps. Necro can ALSO turn their hps into healing of others.

That loop right there is simply absurd with regards to synergy all by itself. It ignores all the other ways each of these classes complement each other so beautifully. That … and with regrowth + torpor + necro heal you’re looking at the equivalent of an on demand 440hp HoT … which is frankly more than enough healing for any groupable trophy kill in the game once it is slowed.

For the pre-60 and pretorpor game, necro/shaman synergy means there will always be mana for buffs, heals, slows … no real med breaks needed

It’s a high dps group that has healing coming out of its ears, strong tanking, plenty of CC and her perfect pull potential with 2 FD classes.

I can’t think of any 3 classes that compliment each other better than 2x ench and cleric

[Rimitto]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What?

Shamans turn hp into mana. Shamans can turn mana into hp (heals). Necros turn hp into mana. Necros turn mana into heals via taps. Necro can ALSO turn their hps into healing of others.

That loop right there is simply absurd with regards to synergy all by itself. It ignores all the other ways each of these classes complement each other so beautifully. That … and with regrowth + torpor + necro heal you’re looking at the equivalent of an on demand 440hp HoT … which is frankly more than enough healing for any groupable trophy kill in the game once it is slowed.

For the pre-60 and pretorpor game, necro/shaman synergy means there will always be mana for buffs, heals, slows … no real med breaks needed

It’s a high dps group that has healing coming out of its ears, strong tanking, plenty of CC and her perfect pull potential with 2 FD classes.

I can’t think of any 3 classes that compliment each other better than 2x ench and cleric

You've just perfectly highlighted the problem. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everything the shm-nec synergy can do is only tied to HP and Mana.

pacify? nope.
roots? basic ones.
buffs? shm only nec has no buffs.
stuns? nope.
memblur? nope.

There are many things that shaman-necro cannot do, that the other classes in the rng-cle-bar CAN do.

It's the versatility vs viability argument. Since the original argument is to not allow enchanters in, I'm throwing in the extra rule of no-charming. Necro at this point is just a battery, your shaman isn't gonna be outputting that much dps, and your bard is your tank???
How do you even kill anything when all you have at that point are hp/mana defenses? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dedicated rolls don't need to play patsy around their sole synergy setup to function, they rely on the synergy as a backup while their main class rolls ARE synergy.
A ranger for example is a partial tank and partial puller. They excel at both of those things when they have a full healer or full CC. Bard is a partial CC, cleric is a full Healer. Ranger benefits solely from the synergy of being around them.

If you want to argue natural synergy vs forced synergy, feel free.
I've played in groups of natural synergy and the exp and levels flew by.
I've played in groups of forced synergy, and it was "decent" exp but very stressful, not the best parties.

The question is "best trio", which I would describe as a group that doesn't have issues partying anything/everything they attempt while not being a burden or taxing to the party at the same time.
If you can go 10 hours in a party with very little breaks, then clearly that's the best party.
If you have to break every 20 minutes or less, then clearly it's a forced synergy.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Rimitto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You just agreed and replaced the entire party 1 class at a time [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That was the point I was making. It's good and would be fun, but I don't think it would be best at anything. You're making a good argument for it though.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Rimitto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not trying to downplay your shaman, necro strats, but there's just not that much actual synergy or options between it.
Necro has 1 buff, DMF.. and 1 mana regen "twitch" which only the shaman can benefit from. It's jenky.

holy shit you're bad at eq

before torpor the necro is the main healer with the shaman there for emergency burst heals