Timesinks != difficult

[Arclanz]

Rather than hijack the wow thread, I wanted to expound.

Timesinks and inconveniences do indeed equal difficulty. What skill is required to overcome this difficulty? Perseverance. The same skill, it so happens, that, above all other skills, decides who becomes the CEO, the Doctor, the Lawyer, the Astronaut. A skill that the youth today are not learning. Is it coincidence that the number of people on welfare has also skyrocketed in recent times?

[lawll]

Originally Posted by Arclanz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rather than hijack the wow thread, I wanted to expound.

Timesinks and inconveniences do indeed equal difficulty. What skill is required to overcome this difficulty? Perseverance. The same skill, it so happens, that, above all other skills, decides who becomes the CEO, the Doctor, the Lawyer, the Astronaut. A skill that the youth today is not learning. Is it coincidence that the number of people on welfare has also skyrocketed in recent times?

Just because I need to run across the world to make it to the next city to turn in a quest item doesn't make it hard at all. Or just because I need to get my 50 raid members keyed for a new raid zone doesn't make it hard. It's just a pointless time sink to hold of progression.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by lawll [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just because I need to run across the world to make it to the next city to turn in a quest item doesn't make it hard at all. Or just because I need to get my 50 raid members keyed for a new raid zone doesn't make it hard. It's just a pointless time sink to hold of progression.

Tell the next marathon runner you meet that all the miles he/she ran in training were just a pointless time sink designed to hold off progression, then come back on here and let me know what he/she says about that.

[lawll]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tell the next marathon runner you meet that all the miles he/she ran in training were just a pointless time sink designed to hold off progression, then come back on here and let me know what he/she says about that.

Lol progress to what a gold metal? Then that's just saying why fight bosses at all just give me the loot.

[subatis]

i don't think its the time sinks that make it difficult, directly. there's a couple pieces, here are examples...

1) death - you lose XP, and have to get your corpse. its not the time sink inherently that makes it hard, its the THREAT of dying (and the ease at which you can die) that makes EQ hard.

2) travel - No, going from one place to another isn't hard at level 50, but because of the threat of dying and having do it all over again, travel can be quite hard at low levels...and if you are so against the time sink, then get a port, its not difficult to do and requires that you (GASP!) talk to other people.

like others said in the wow thread, p1999 is a very niche hobby, and to me the allure is that the above 2 things (and others) make EQ very immersive. Being scared of death makes death feel more real than it does in wow or modern EQ, and therefore makes the whole experience more interesting/fun. Likewise, the long travel times at low levels make the world feel big, and give noobs a reason to stay in certain spots instead of trucking it to where everyone else is (like paludal caverns when luclin came out).

[Arclanz]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tell the next marathon runner you meet that all the miles he/she ran in training were just a pointless time sink designed to hold off progression, then come back on here and let me know what he/she says about that.

This forum needs a Like button.

[Houdiny]

This is a great debate. I often wondered what other people thought about "grinding" or what they consider difficult. In Vanguard there was a TON of grinding. And I mean a metric (you know what) ton. It separated the weak from the bold for sure.

In most MMO's you either have what it takes to do something or you don't. Whether it be level wise of gear wise. No amount of skill or hand eye coordination is going to let you kill Ambassador Dvinn at level 1. You need levels, gear, and skillups. All of which are required by grinding.

So in my opinion, yes grinding(timesinks) do indeed help determine a degree of difficulty. I'm not saying that one Enchanter can't be better than another at charming a mob and working over another mob better, or a necro being able to dungeon crawl faster or kill said mob more efficiently.

But a characters potential is his potential. He can't do more than the most he can do. It all depends on the player getting the most out of it.

[lawll]

Originally Posted by Houdiny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a great debate. I often wondered what other people thought about "grinding" or what they consider difficult. In Vanguard there was a TON of grinding. And I mean a metric (you know what) ton. It separated the weak from the bold for sure.

In most MMO's you either have what it takes to do something or you don't. Whether it be level wise of gear wise. No amount of skill or hand eye coordination is going to let you kill Ambassador Dvinn at level 1. You need levels, gear, and skillups. All of which are required by grinding.

So in my opinion, yes grinding(timesinks) do indeed help determine a degree of difficulty. I'm not saying that one Enchanter can't be better than another at charming a mob and working over another mob better, or a necro being able to dungeon crawl faster or kill said mob more efficiently.

But a characters potential is his potential. He can't do more than the most he can do. It all depends on the player getting the most out of it.

Grinding isn't so bad when you find good ways to hide it but not straight in your face grind like EQ was.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by lawll [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Grinding isn't so bad when you find good ways to hide it but not straight in your face grind like EQ was.

This is very true. If there is an objective or a reason for grinding it does mask it some.

I myself enjoy grinding. I like sitting in a group with others chatting, interacting, having fun. I don't however like going from NPC to NPC loading up on quests and soloing/duoing my way ahead. I am not singling out any other mmo here this is the jist of exp'ing in every MMO it seems. And it just doesn't feel very MMO to me.

In EQ you worried about your reputation, you thought twice about double crossing someone, or another guild. Didn't always stop you but in the back of your mind you're always thinking is this going to ruin me in the long run, are my guildmates going to be upset, will they kick me?

There was consequences for the way you held yourself in EQ. Most guilds didn't recruit tools that had a bad rep for ninja looting or training people. And this is all credited to EQ being more personal than most other games these days are. It's spending those 5 hours in Solb that you get to know people.

[Houdiny]

Originally Posted by lawll [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just because I need to run across the world to make it to the next city to turn in a quest item doesn't make it hard at all. Or just because I need to get my 50 raid members keyed for a new raid zone doesn't make it hard. It's just a pointless time sink to hold of progression.

Just wanting your opinion here. But give me some examples of when turning in a quest is hard. My MMO experiences are limited to a handful of games. So there could be something out there I don't have a clue about honestly. I have never really found a game "hard" yet. I don't PvP so putting that aspect of a game aside, none of them I have tried have been hard. You either know what to do or you don't is the consensus I get with MMO's. And the people that don't know there is youtube these days.

Once you know how something is done it instantly becomes trivial to me as far as MMO's are concerned. And this is no jab I am genuinely curious. Like raid encounters, none of it's hard. It's all button pushing or being in the right place to avoid something. Once you know it the encounter becomes easy.