I am Bashing Staff for Missing Threads

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Alawen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My current break from opiates is somewhere around 20 years. My two junk buddies are still junkies. One is currently methadone + ativan + weed, another is oxycodone + xanax + weed + booze. I love them both like brothers, but I can't be around them much. We were all pals for years before the drugs.

The methadone guy, I'll call him M, is on disability. He did something awful to both his ankles jumping over a fence. He's rail thin and lives mostly on soda, eats maybe one meal a day. His teeth are a disaster. M has stopped his heart at least twice that I know of with speedballs. He had some weird twitching and tremors thing for a while, but it mostly went away when he switched from klonopin to ativan.

I'll call the oxycodone guy O. All three of us were thin when we were young, but now O is fat. Really fat. He works a little bit, but mostly lives off an even fatter girl who he lives with. He had some sort of seizure and stroke a couple years ago when he was shooting something and now his memory is odd. He remembers old things vividly but has trouble forming new memories. He has a gambling problem to go with his chemical addiction, but never has enough money to indulge it much. Any extra money he gets disappears into drugs and cards, though.

As I've mentioned previously, I was a property manager for about a year in San Francisco. I ran one of the Shelter+Care buildings. All of my 63 residents were formerly homeless, mentally ill, and had some sort of substance addiction. About half had HIV or AIDS. Two addictions were consistently devastating, all the others were manageable. Meth addictions absolutely wreck people. It destroys tissue. I've never seen anyone kick a meth addiction.

The other really vicious addiction is booze. It destroys brain function. Alcoholics suffer by far the worst mood swings and withdrawal symptoms compared to other addicts. Lost brain function never seems to return. On a side note, schizophrenics are really fucked, too. The medications don't seem any better than the illness and symptoms seem to get progressively worse with age.

The most interesting thing I've noticed is that addiction is a true expression of individuality. Nothing anyone else says or does seems to have much impact on who develops a habit, and nothing anyone else says or does seems to have much impact on who kicks a habit. I know an incredible number of functional alcoholics who have jobs and families along with several drinks every day. What I think of as the typical American is addicted to alcohol, caffeine, and sugar, and manages resulting inflammation with over-the-counter pain killers--aspirin or ibuprofen.

my apologies alawen. I did not see this post. Plz forgive my antagonistic attitude past few posts. I thought you were defending the "recreational" use of these drugs. I did not see this post where you explained your experience. Again, sorry.

[Reapin]

Originally Posted by bouncerr 2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah because people with broken spines and severe back pain should just "deal with it"

People want an easy way out of everything, especially Americans. They want to pop a pill to lose weight, get a hard on, dull minor pain etc. Well guess what? You are not doing yourself any favors by living that way. DEAL with it. If you can't natural less damaging substances can dull your pain.

I knew a guy with a back. He took medication to dull the pain and medication for the symptoms of that medication. He is popping 15 pills a day. It is ridiculous. Such people are sheep of the big pharma getting fleeced and damaging themselves in the process.

[pharmakos]

Originally Posted by Reapin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People want an easy way out of everything

thats what the Amish said when they decided technology is evil

[Kagatob]

Originally Posted by Reapin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People want an easy way out of everything, especially Americans. They want to pop a pill to lose weight, get a hard on, dull minor pain etc. Well guess what? You are not doing yourself any favors by living that way. DEAL with it. If you can't natural less damaging substances can dull your pain.

I knew a guy with a back. He took medication to dull the pain and medication for the symptoms of that medication. He is popping 15 pills a day. It is ridiculous. Such people are sheep of the big pharma getting fleeced and damaging themselves in the process.

After the pharmaceutical companies, blame the doctors/hospitals instead of the patients then. The patients aren't the source or perpetuation of the misinformation that convinces them they need all of the meds.

[Alawen]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

my apologies alawen. I did not see this post. Plz forgive my antagonistic attitude past few posts. I thought you were defending the "recreational" use of these drugs. I did not see this post where you explained your experience. Again, sorry.

I was so baffled by an apology in RnF that I was momentarily speechless. Apparently I'm used to all of us being absolute fuckers to each other especially when we are dead wrong. In the interest of civility, I accept.

However, I don't think we are in agreement about this. While I don't advocate recreational drug use, neither do I condemn it. I'll continue my thoughts below Reapin's quote.

Originally Posted by Reapin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People want an easy way out of everything, especially Americans. They want to pop a pill to lose weight, get a hard on, dull minor pain etc. Well guess what? You are not doing yourself any favors by living that way. DEAL with it. If you can't natural less damaging substances can dull your pain.

I knew a guy with a back. He took medication to dull the pain and medication for the symptoms of that medication. He is popping 15 pills a day. It is ridiculous. Such people are sheep of the big pharma getting fleeced and damaging themselves in the process.

This is a pretty hard line you're drawing. My thoughts are split somewhere between compassion and personal responsibility.

By some coincidence, I talked to my friend M earlier today. We talked about his cats, his plans to check out the cute gay girls at Pride, the differences between painting with acrylics and oils. I never, never nag him about his drug use. It wouldn't accomplish anything except alienating one of my oldest friends. We've known each other since our teens.

Philosophically, I think we live in a confusing world. At some level, I think we all know that we are unnecessary. By this, I mean that nothing will really change if we quit our jobs, or die, or spend our time taking drugs and playing video games, or anything else. A handful of people will notice for a while, but no one is going to starve if we're gone. Nothing will cease to exist except our own personal interests.

Ironically, this is because life has become too easy. We're not needed to grow crops, herd animals, grind grain, bind wounds, set bones, sew clothes. We're all easily interchangeable and replaceable. Yet we think that we are expected to grind away at some pointless job pushing paper and bits, so we talk about how busy we are while we're really watching the clock until it's time to go home. We're still genuinely stressed by this synthetic pressure.

On the other hand, we have this great freedom. Some of us are empowered by this and take advantage of our luxurious existence.

I think it's hard to condemn people for failing to figure out their place in the world. I think most people are doing the best they can with what they know at the time.

For me, the meaning of life is to be happy. Conversely, if you are happy, you are failing at life, and furthermore it's your own fault. Some people seem to need a healthy buzz to face the day. I think those choices are their own. It honestly makes no difference to me if they're grinding away at some pointless task or drooling on themselves in front of the television.

[Alawen]

The second sentence in my last paragraph should read "Conversely, if you are unhappy, ..."

[Reapin]

Originally Posted by Alawen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was so baffled by an apology in RnF that I was momentarily speechless. Apparently I'm used to all of us being absolute fuckers to each other especially when we are dead wrong. In the interest of civility, I accept.

However, I don't think we are in agreement about this. While I don't advocate recreational drug use, neither do I condemn it. I'll continue my thoughts below Reapin's quote.



This is a pretty hard line you're drawing. My thoughts are split somewhere between compassion and personal responsibility.

By some coincidence, I talked to my friend M earlier today. We talked about his cats, his plans to check out the cute gay girls at Pride, the differences between painting with acrylics and oils. I never, never nag him about his drug use. It wouldn't accomplish anything except alienating one of my oldest friends. We've known each other since our teens.

Philosophically, I think we live in a confusing world. At some level, I think we all know that we are unnecessary. By this, I mean that nothing will really change if we quit our jobs, or die, or spend our time taking drugs and playing video games, or anything else. A handful of people will notice for a while, but no one is going to starve if we're gone. Nothing will cease to exist except our own personal interests.

Ironically, this is because life has become too easy. We're not needed to grow crops, herd animals, grind grain, bind wounds, set bones, sew clothes. We're all easily interchangeable and replaceable. Yet we think that we are expected to grind away at some pointless job pushing paper and bits, so we talk about how busy we are while we're really watching the clock until it's time to go home. We're still genuinely stressed by this synthetic pressure.

On the other hand, we have this great freedom. Some of us are empowered by this and take advantage of our luxurious existence.

I think it's hard to condemn people for failing to figure out their place in the world. I think most people are doing the best they can with what they know at the time.

For me, the meaning of life is to be happy. Conversely, if you are happy, you are failing at life, and furthermore it's your own fault. Some people seem to need a healthy buzz to face the day. I think those choices are their own. It honestly makes no difference to me if they're grinding away at some pointless task or drooling on themselves in front of the television.

I agree with you. This false construct that we find ourselves born into is meaningless and of no relevance. I personally reject all expectations society has. I do not care about anything other than the well being and happiness of my friends, family and people in my community. We are tribal creatures meant to live in small groups with each person having a vital role in that group.

Many of the problems we face with drug abuse, violence and psychotic behavior come from the fact that we no longer live in such a social system. We are essentially the same people we were when we were hunters and gatherers. Evolution is a slow process and perhaps we will never succeed because our society changes too quickly for our biology to catch up.

[gotrocks]

i have to say i agree with almost everything alawen has said, and having gone through it myself and having also seen plenty of people do the same, i can say without a doubt that drugs are a horrible thing. There are a select few people who can take them recreationally and not have a problem but they are few and far between. Most people are going to get addicted and it will eventually ruin their lives.

I especially agree with what you said about meth and alcohol, those two are really really bad. Alcohol seems to take much longer to really start to ruin someones body/life, but meth is especially dangerous and acts quickly. very few people come back from a serious meth addiction, and it usually fucks people over withing a few years of starting if not less. Crack is another really bad one, and can do lasting mental damage just like meth. I've seen some poeple very very close to me go crazy from crack, and it took them a long long time to balance back out an be able to think like a normal person again.

I do not, however, think that addicts should be punished, shunned, or anything of the sort. They shouldn't be put down. They're not just wasting our air. Each one is an individual, and they all have the potential to clean themselves up and do something great. Not that many do, but the potential is there, and everyone deserves that chance to make things right. Anyone who thinks like that is ignorant as hell and probably feels that way because someone in their life that was supposed to be a role model or take care of them (like a father or uncle) was an addict, and now they will always have that prejudice against people like that.

Sadre and alawen, you two basically agree with each other with just a couple minor differences. It was really cool to see sadre apologize, and even though most of his posts dont make sense and are very weird, he's gained a couple points in my book for admitting he was wrong.

[r00t]

if i lose mobility in my finger can i collect obamabux disabilityy? technically typing on computers is 420% of my profession...

[Kagatob]

Can you please just die already?