Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[Vianna]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Disband TMO imo.

Don't start this rhetoric no one wants anyone disbanded. There are grudges I am sure on both sides of the fence in several guilds. I ask you what I asked Sericx. Looking at the mechanics. With variance with extended windows that require tracking and getting a raid force to a mob....FTE shouts letting guilds know who won the race... Show a viable reason why training another guild is needed. Just 1 viable reason why it should still be in the game at this point.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sericx, we have already eatablished that training was never allowed on live and csr reps would punish those who committed intentional trains, regardless of where it occurred.

We also have already established that non csr zones did not mean training was allowed, it simply meant that you wouldn't receive any gm assistance recovering your corpses should you wipe.


All of this is kn the everquest rule book, which I linked on the original post. Stop shitting up my thread please, trying to open up a legit discussion here.

Rogean has already posted saying the non csr rule from live has nothing to do with training being allowed in vp on p99 so...what argument are you trying to make here?

Forgot to add something, and barring any dishonesty, cecily can vouch for me here.
FE was regularly outnumbered 2 to 1 while going for mobs in VP against TMO. I think 31 ppl was the most I saw while going through FE's vp logs. 24 people for our druushk kill (while 3 or 4 of them were thwarting tmo trains.)


Anyway, I'm not sure what speculation I'm making because a simple google search will reveal that training was always against the rules in everquest. But as was already stated by rogean, training being allowed in VP on p99 has no connection to any eqlive policies, including the fact that VP was a non csr zone.


Also, fear/hate are listed as non-csr zones as well sericx. Are you trying to say training was allowed there as well?

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't start this rhetoric no one wants anyone disbanded. There are grudges I am sure on both sides of the fence in several guilds. I ask you what I asked Sericx. Looking at the mechanics. With variance with extended windows that require tracking and getting a raid force to a mob....FTE shouts letting guilds know who won the race... Show a viable reason why training another guild is needed. Just 1 viable reason why it should still be in the game at this point.

Raw undiluted spite?

[Vianna]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Raw undiluted spite?

lol is that viable though ? For competition that is.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Laugher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This issue should also be discussed by guild leaders of VP flagged guilds (and up and coming VP guilds) here. I am interested to hear what they have to say about the current policy being that they (or people they have chosen) lead groups of individuals into these zones. That is not to say that I haven't read everyone's opinions so far but this debate seems to lack leadership commentary.

Also I like musashi1612's idea of guilds banding together given the current policy. This would enable the ousting of various raid forces who didn't comply to say diplomatic relations with other guilds and thereby establishing raid times/calls for a guild to have their time in VP. What it seems currently is that none of the guild higher ups are making any efforts to provide any order between guild relations and training. With a UN of VP keyd guilds so to say it would be far easier to provide orderly and kindly raid times for various guilds as enforced by diplomatic train squads. Given the current policy this would be a somewhat ideal way for everyone to have their raid time in VP as unimpeded as can be and enforced by the community.

Yes current mechanics can also be blamed for the situation, but this is blue and one of the mainstays of this server is depending on others to get where you want to go (ex. grouping) so why not be nice to one another to figure things out among yourselves and leave the ganking to enforcers and red?

*edit* given the current grey area of policy*

Everything you've mentioned has been tried and tried again.

There is only 1 guild unwilling to negotiate regarding these issues which has been made apparent in many situations. I spent a bit of time tonight googling around on old forums for info regarding VP during kunark era and found tons of folks on other websites complaining about how shitty p99 raiding is and many of them mention the fact that training is unenforced as being one of their reasons to quit playing here.

This was one of the reasons that verant originally put a play nice policy in place, because they were losing players left and right to griefing assholes. Imagine what p99's population would look like if we had fair rules which were enforced and true to the rules laid out in classic everquest.

[Vianna]

I'll leave it for others to respond. Honestly though just show me where training another guild is needed to show which guild is better in any zone. Because I don't see it. Racing to targets that spawn in a certain window is competition. FTE shouts are in place to show who won the race and who has the first engage. At that point or anytime before that point...All training is is griefing and a stall tactic.

[musashi1612]

And now you will all see why i have scratched blue off my list and moved on to red atleast i know what im getting into there

[xmonkx]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sericx, we have already eatablished that training was never allowed on live and csr reps would punish those who committed intentional trains, regardless of where it occurred.

We also have already established that non csr zones did not mean training was allowed, it simply meant that you wouldn't receive any gm assistance recovering your corpses should you wipe.


All of this is kn the everquest rule book, which I linked on the original post. Stop shitting up my thread please, trying to open up a legit discussion here.

Rogean has already posted saying the non csr rule from live has nothing to do with training being allowed in vp on p99 so...what argument are you trying to make here?

As I said Tassle, I dont know what server you came from but on Mith Marr it was work hard play hard. Aka training was aloud in VP. I wont believe otherwise until you show me some of your "Established Proof". You guys did ok in VP for the short time you were there. But you guys got burnt out and cry like bitches. And Vianna please get some raiding exp under your belt before comming in a raiding/training thread acting like you know some shit.

edit: Vianna, maybe if you were actually raiding when they implemented variances and FTE shouts - you would know they did this to counter poopsocking and less petitioning of GM's to see who got FTE snipes.

[newsmurf]

This is pretty laughable...again everyone who isn't TMO complains they want to reap the benefits of loot without matching the effort put in by the leading competitor. As sirken said...why would the guys on top want to change anything without you guys applying pressure? Stop throwing your hands up in the air asking for someone to fix things for you and take it upon yourselves. Shinko by himself griefed the hell out of a TMO raid for 4 hours, he made them miserable, i had TMO buds tell me how awful that raid was lol. Put your foot on their necks and step down on it until they have to ask you to breath. Assemble a raid force of alts outside of VP and make their life's miserable every time they log on to kill a dragon, you guys have the numbers, you have the keys, when their raids start taking 4-8 hours or aren't even completed, guess what, they might be willing to sit at a table with you and talk some terms = ). Don't try and play their game, play your own ^^.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by xmonkx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As I said Tassle, I dont know what server you came from but on Mith Marr it was work hard play hard. Aka training was aloud in VP. I wont believe otherwise until you show me some of your "Established Proof". You guys did ok in VP for the short time you were there. But you guys got burnt out and cry like bitches. And Vianna please get some raiding exp under your belt before comming in a raiding/training thread acting like you know some shit.

edit: Vianna, maybe if you were actually raiding when they implemented variances and FTE shouts - you would know they did this to counter poopsocking and less petitioning of GM's to see who got FTE snipes.

Look dude, training was never accepted by live sony csr reps. Non-csr meant no help recovering corpses. This non-csr tag was also given to fear/hate /sky, I certainly don't remember trains being accepted in those zones.

This post was made with the future of p99 in mind, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the past bud. Anyway rogean has already stated in this thread that p99's ruleset regarding VP was never meant to mirror the policies which live EQ had in place. This discussion is meant to shed light on that fact and other information regarding the topic. I also made this post to see where the server as a community stood regarding this topic.


I understand your reluctance to discuss any rule changes because the current rule set favors obe guild only at this point, and that's your guild.
Please try to understand though that there are thousand or so other players who invest time in this community who's opinion and knowledge should be taken into account when discussing matters such as this.

If the community as a whole decides that training is nothing more than cheap and unfair tactic used in order to gain an advantage and that it was in fact against the rules in all situations on live, who are you to say that isn't right? I didn't think one guild dictated the rules on the server regarding training and disruption of other players, even if said guild mistakenly interpreted a classic "non csr" policy to mean training was allowed. But again, I have no idea who or why this set of rules was put into place on p99, which is another reason I made this thread.

Just looked through afterlifes archived news updates from their first VP raid onwards and see no mention of training being allowed or any mention of them experiencing train wars on mith marr, btw.