Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[radditsu]

Any PVP mechanic on a blue server is folly. Thered server is around to specifically to have slap fights over dragons.

Anyway, IB should never have trained TMO. TMO should have never have trained IB. TMO should never have trained bda/fe. FE/BDA should have never have trained TMO. VD should have never mem blurred mobs. None of this should have happend. It caused entirely too much bad blood across guilds. It is something that could have been nipped in the bud early, but TWO YEARS later still causes issues at the top of the raid scene. None of it should have happened. Everyone makes mistakes, and the server has evolved in almost every other way. This mistake should be rectified. TMO should be trying to kill VP dragons with 6 people now, instead of having 6 people run around just to train/countertrain any potential threats. I would respect TMO if they used their gear advantage/supposed player skill to do what we thought was impossible 13 years ago. Instead of griefing people using THE single most abhorrent player abuse in the game of everquest(on a blue server).

The server is blue, the rules should be consistently blue. They built the arena's for blue pvp. EQ is dog eat dog enough, especially this server, without hybrid red psuedo griefing tools. If you want to be a classic experience, be a classic experience.

[FenninEQaddict]

So what you guys are saying is high end raiding is toxic because training is allowed in VP?

Show of hands how many of you that are complaining about this have seen VP beyond on a Twitch feed or Wiki link?

How many of you think your guild could be clearing VP right now if training wasnt occuring there?

Now a show of hands on how many of you feel that endgame raiding is too toxic for you and dont want to do it?

I think once those numbers were tallied It would show a majority of the people who feel high end raiding is too toxic feel that way not because of VP but because of the way a small percent of the server treats each other where it can be seen by everyone else.

Those who say TMO or IB or FE or BDA or FC or any other raiding guild are the cause of the problems with raiding scene are probably right but its not the raiding scene itself its how you guys treat each other where people can see. Its like a really bad reality internet tv show staring politicians.

[timhutton]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any PVP mechanic on a blue server is folly. Thered server is around to specifically to have slap fights over dragons.

Anyway, IB should never have trained TMO. TMO should have never have trained IB. TMO should never have trained bda/fe. FE/BDA should have never have trained TMO. VD should have never mem blurred mobs. None of this should have happend. It caused entirely too much bad blood across guilds. It is something that could have been nipped in the bud early, but TWO YEARS later still causes issues at the top of the raid scene. None of it should have happened. Everyone makes mistakes, and the server has evolved in almost every other way. This mistake should be rectified. TMO should be trying to kill VP dragons with 6 people now, instead of having 6 people run around just to train/countertrain any potential threats. I would respect TMO if they used their gear advantage/supposed player skill to do what we thought was impossible 13 years ago. Instead of griefing people using THE single most abhorrent player abuse in the game of everquest(on a blue server).

The server is blue, the rules should be consistently blue. They built the arena's for blue pvp. EQ is dog eat dog enough, especially this server, without hybrid red psuedo griefing tools. If you want to be a classic experience, be a classic experience.

While I agree with and understand what you're saying in regards to training, I don't think it would have worked itself out any other way, and that is the direct responsibility of both the players, and the GMs (and maybe even a little on the devs).

Ultimately, with the FFA VP rules in place and given the high-end players on this server there was NO ALTERNATIVE way the scenario was ever going to pan out, and it never will unless a rule change is implemented. There are probably 1000+ people that have characters and want to raid on this server. On any given night 300-400 of them are logged in simultaneously. There are not enough mobs available to entertain those people for 5-6 hours a night.

Why wasn't there any alternative? Why didn't someone put in a gentlemanly agreement to not train each other and be civil? Because the raid scene on this server is essentially an arms race. It always has been, and as long as resources remain scarce it always will be. Let's ignore VP for a second and use pre-VP Trakanon as an example.

For 4 months or so after Kunark launching there was only 1 guild killing Trak. As soon as a second guild showed up the escalations began. First thing that changed was the need to camp mains out at the ledge. Coth chains took far too long. Once the other guys caught on and were camping at the ledge it was time to move the ledge closer. Poop mountain became a thing. Once the other guys were on poop mountain, FTE sniping became a thing. It was all about who had the quickest jav's. Once everyone was sniping FTE it became about who can hold it the longest without dying to give their guild the most time to log in. DA tanking with FTE was born.

This same cycle of escalation has happened on mobs all throughout the game, VS, Talendor, Sev, Trak, naggy/vox/draco/fay alts etc.
The point is, in each case the players are going to escalate to the very limit that they can in order to get access to the scarce resources the mobs provide. A lot of times (DA-tanking, training) they are even bending the rules slightly and being down-right as douchey as they can in order to ensure victory.

Now back to VP, where GMs stated that it was going to be a no-csr FFA zone. There was a forced rotation that lasted for a couple of weeks. After that backstabbing training began. Another attempt at rotation was made. More training ensued. Eventually there was even ninja looting which the GMs said was a no-no or I can garuntee you would still be on the field today.

The point is, that the only thing that is going to stop the players are rules and enforcement. The fact that VP was announced as a FFA zone with training allowed means that the ONLY possible final outcome would be the players pushing it as far as possible.

That is the nature of those who raid.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any PVP mechanic on a blue server is folly. Thered server is around to specifically to have slap fights over dragons.

Anyway, IB should never have trained TMO. TMO should have never have trained IB. TMO should never have trained bda/fe. FE/BDA should have never have trained TMO. VD should have never mem blurred mobs. None of this should have happend. It caused entirely too much bad blood across guilds. It is something that could have been nipped in the bud early, but TWO YEARS later still causes issues at the top of the raid scene. None of it should have happened. Everyone makes mistakes, and the server has evolved in almost every other way. This mistake should be rectified. TMO should be trying to kill VP dragons with 6 people now, instead of having 6 people run around just to train/countertrain any potential threats. I would respect TMO if they used their gear advantage/supposed player skill to do what we thought was impossible 13 years ago. Instead of griefing people using THE single most abhorrent player abuse in the game of everquest(on a blue server).

The server is blue, the rules should be consistently blue. They built the arena's for blue pvp. EQ is dog eat dog enough, especially this server, without hybrid red psuedo griefing tools. If you want to be a classic experience, be a classic experience.

Training is Blue. Being able to dispel a non group member or to damage another member without a /d is Red.

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training is Blue. Being able to dispel a non group member or to damage another member without a /d is Red.

unintentional training is blue.

Intentional training is a) griefing and b) a red tactic..and not even a honorable red tactic.

[Raavak]

Except for VP (and ST?)

[timhutton]

Hence this thread.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

unintentional training is blue.

Intentional training is a) griefing and b) a red tactic..and not even a honorable red tactic.

.

[timhutton]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

unintentional training is blue.

Intentional training is a) griefing and b) a red tactic..and not even a honorable red tactic.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by FenninEQaddict [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what you guys are saying is high end raiding is toxic because training is allowed in VP?

End game is toxic because there are more players than loot to go around. Its classic.