The official RMTer Goodbye P1999 Thread

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by Dinfalas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hysterical.. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]



You beat me to it Odie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Not to mention this group of folks were involved with over a hundred accounts that were temporarily banned for exploiting P1999 for an innumerable amount of platinum into the economy.

Which brings me to my next question: Why do the RMT folks get permanently banned as opposed to temporary bans given out to the game exploiters? Seems to me the real damage is not even comparable. Some Joe buys a FBSS for $20 from platlord and his account gets the death penalty where as P1999 Platinum exploiters get a month or two ban? I am all for a draconian punishment for rule breakers, however the judgement being served in these two cases is like giving the High School weed dealer the guillotine and then letting El Chapo and his murdering buddies perform community service for snorting a pallet of cocaine in a human trafficking hotel..[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There seems to be a lot of confusion over this.

Only 2 people were exploiting. We banned every account they had logged into over the course of ~3 years, even if it was only a single time. When the actual owners of the accounts petitioned, we dropped the bans to suspensions on a case-by-case basis, so long as the account was clean and had a limited number of logins from one of the people who exploited.

If we had thought leadership or a larger portion of the guild was involved, we would have disbanded the guild and held leadership responsible.

The exploiters themselves got not only their accounts permanently banned, but also a number of accounts that weren't even theirs banned as well (based on high # of logins)

So, yes, I'd say that's substantially worse.

[LulzSect]

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[Nikon]

Originally Posted by Dinfalas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which brings me to my next question: Why do the RMT folks get permanently banned as opposed to temporary bans given out to the game exploiters? Seems to me the real damage is not even comparable.

**Edit: Deru beat me to it while I was editing, but ....** My first response to this would be do you have proof that confirmed exploiters were only given temporary bans? If you are referring to the December banning of the exploiters and suspension of many TMO accounts, I believe it was stated that only a few of the accounts were actually used to exploit. They allowed for people to appeal their bans/suspensions on a case by case scenario and if they were found not to have performed the exploit they would be only temporarily suspended. This was a weed-out tactic. While they don't condone account sharing, they don't generally treat it as a bannable offense. So if someone's only issue was sharing their account, why should they be perma banned? This parallels to the unbanning of those that were banned for unknowingly helping with RMT transfers for which the account doing the transfer was banned by association but received no RMT goods.

Second, the 'real damage' from both RMT and exploits is very different. RMT has the ability to get the server shut down. Exploits only affect the server on a local level (until someone decides to RMT exploited items/money). Sony is not going to care if people are duping on the server for the sake of duping, but I'm fairly confident they would give a few shits if people are making RL money off their game. This may or may not be the thinking behind the GMs actions, as I believe anyone that can be confirmed to have exploited and/or RMT are all perma banned, but it's a logical explanation for your proposed disparity.

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's actually neither. The default position is that "we don't know," not "the staff are not involved in RMT until proven otherwise."

That also applies to your half-assed analogy to theistic/atheistic arguments.

Innocent until proven guilty, that a new concept to you?

[Archestratie]

Originally Posted by Duckwalk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Apparently you haven't experienced the hidden forest server where there are people running around with literally THOUSANDS of dollars of "donation gear" on single characters.

Does it have the population of P99?

[smedlysmom14]

Originally Posted by Nikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

**Edit: Deru beat me to it while I was editing, but ....** My first response to this would be do you have proof that confirmed exploiters were only given temporary bans? If you are referring to the December banning of the exploiters and suspension of many TMO accounts, I believe it was stated that only a few of the accounts were actually used to exploit. They allowed for people to appeal their bans/suspensions on a case by case scenario and if they were found not to have performed the exploit they would be only temporarily suspended. This was a weed-out tactic. While they don't condone account sharing, they don't generally treat it as a bannable offense. So if someone's only issue was sharing their account, why should they be perma banned? This parallels to the unbanning of those that were banned for unknowingly helping with RMT transfers for which the account doing the transfer was banned by association but received no RMT goods.

Second, the 'real damage' from both RMT and exploits is very different. RMT has the ability to get the server shut down. Exploits only affect the server on a local level (until someone decides to RMT exploited items/money). Sony is not going to care if people are duping on the server for the sake of duping, but I'm fairly confident they would give a few shits if people are making RL money off their game. This may or may not be the thinking behind the GMs actions, as I believe anyone that can be confirmed to have exploited and/or RMT are all perma banned, but it's a logical explanation for your proposed disparity.

I think he's onto something.

[Eunomia]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"we don't know"

I know. No one on staff is involved in Real Money Trade. Granted, you have no reason to believe me. If it helps, I see enough to know if they were.

I will admit to wondering about the integrity of the server when I was a new player. It's hard to comprehend why anyone would devote this much time and energy for no monetary reward. After reading the forums and gaining a better understanding of the "project", my concerns were put to rest.

This is a hobby. Some hobbies are time consuming and even expensive. If you are a gun enthusiast, you have no issue buying ammunition and shooting off rounds with nothing but the fleeing moment of enjoyment as reward. Maybe brewing beer is your hobby and you drink your reward. The guys that do the coding here, love it. It is their fun. The reward is watching all of you enjoy it. I can imagine it is hurtful when you make false accusations, but thankfully they have grown thick skin.

If you still have doubts: http://www.project1999.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=33
Apply to be a guide and maybe you'll have the chance to get to know this great team also.

[smedlysmom14]

Originally Posted by Eunomia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know. No one staff is involved in Real Money Trade. Granted, you have no reason to believe me. If it helps, I see enough to know if they were.

I will admit to wondering about the integrity of the server when I was a new player. It's hard to comprehend why anyone would devote this much time and energy for no monetary reward. After reading the forums and gaining a better understanding of the "project", my concerns were put to rest.

This is a hobby. Some hobbies are time consuming and even expensive. If you are a gun enthusiast, you have no issue buying ammunition and shooting off rounds with nothing but the fleeing moment of enjoyment as reward. Maybe brewing beer is your hobby and you drink your reward. The guys that do the coding here, love it. It is their fun. The reward is watching all of you enjoy it. I can imagine it is hurtful when you make false accusations, but thankfully they have grown thick skin.

If you still have doubts: http://www.project1999.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=33
Apply to be a guide and maybe you'll have the chance to get to know this great team also.

One can only assume though when you allow RMT to go on for 3 - 4 months without banning...

[Eunomia]

Originally Posted by smedlysmom14 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One can only assume though when you allow RMT to go on for 3 - 4 months without banning...

These things take time. If we jumped the gun on banning someone without being certain, you'd complain we acted too fast. It really is an investigation. People here are busy. Busy with the responsibilities here as well as job and families.

[Leeyuuduu]

Originally Posted by Nadril [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Basically yes. Everyone complains how RMT ruins camps,economy, and creates an unfair advantage. These camps will be taken whether the PP is sold for real cash or not. Reality is the majority of the kids kicking and screaming are the ones that can only get ahead in a game tilted into their own favor. EQ classic is not a skill based game, more time=more success. Every unemployed Tom, crippled Dick, and disabled Harry will be the real "winner" in EQ, time is in their favor. For others that have obligations and priorities over an EMU server, one way to catch up when starting out without feeling completely left behind in a Norrath dominated by twinks and alts, is to spend a couple hours of pay. This scares the crap out of people that stare at their toon for 12 hours a day because it means people that earn a living and have lives can actually compete with them. I digress. You can conjure up hundreds of reasons why RMT is da devil, fact of the matter is it't wrong for only one reason. Because its in the rules.

That's very sound logic, but I too am a desk jockey with just a few hours of game time a week and I still wouldn't turn to RMT or condone those who do so. The primary reason is that it's against the rules you agreed to abide by when using this free service that is P99. If there is any gray area within these rules, it's for the staff to decide, not the players, and certainly not the person breaking the rules. As an aside, if being competitive in a 15 year old MMO bothers you so much that you find yourself breaking these rules and spending RL cash, maybe it's time to find a more casual MMO, or at least a more casual EQEMU server. There's quite a few out there now.