What's so great about Iksar?

[JPMorgan]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ogre is just a faceroll race.

Min/Max at every possible opportunity kills game immersion as well.

[Supaskillz]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cause people tend to tell anyone who rolls a warrior, SK or Shaman that ogre is the only choice and everyone else is dumb.

When infact, other races can and do play to the same level of efficiency and power, and in certain cases - a la iksars - exceed. Ogre is just a faceroll race. Don't need to think, just cast. Other races sure you've got to wait 0.5 seconds for a round to occur then cast your spell... But instead you can get regen and/or AC or you don't need to shrink ever, etc.

I don't play a shaman so I'm not totally familiar with spell cast times, but against tough mind I know you basically are constantly casting spells. Are torpor and epic click quick enough that you can do this all with careful timing? The ogre ability seems much more important for shamans

[pasi]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cause people tend to tell anyone who rolls a warrior, SK or Shaman that ogre is the only choice and everyone else is dumb.

When infact, other races can and do play to the same level of efficiency and power, and in certain cases - a la iksars - exceed. Ogre is just a faceroll race. Don't need to think, just cast. Other races sure you've got to wait 0.5 seconds for a round to occur then cast your spell... But instead you can get regen and/or AC or you don't need to shrink ever, etc.

I'm one of these people.

Ogres are simply better from a min/max standpoint at level 60. The advantages are not gamebreaking, but they are there.

The idea of timing spells around bashes is pretty naive. As an SK, you are timing your spells around your melee, not the NPCs special abilities timer. Furthermore, if you're timing for bash, you're making the assumption that bash is always going to hit. If you're stunned, you're stunned - why not attempt the cast anyway in case bash misses like it does often? It gets a bit more complicated as well when you sprinkle more than 1 monster into the picture. With an ogre, you get to ignore the above.

[Synthlol]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm one of these people.

Ogres are simply better from a min/max standpoint at level 60. The advantages are not gamebreaking, but they are there.

The idea of timing spells around bashes is pretty naive. As an SK, you are timing your spells around your melee, not the NPCs special abilities timer. Furthermore, if you're timing for bash, you're making the assumption that bash is always going to hit. If you're stunned, you're stunned - why not attempt the cast anyway in case bash misses like it does often? It gets a bit more complicated as well when you sprinkle more than 1 monster into the picture. With an ogre, you get to ignore the above.

This guy gets it, and the same logic applies for shaman too. Timing spellcasts around the mob(s) beating on you is a handicap because it implies waiting, and having to wait to cast is exactly what makes getting stunned dangerous. You can say you don't care, but you can't say it isn't true.

I've seen people say that stun immunity is overrated because an ogre still has to put his butt into a corner to prevent interrupts. This is true, but it isn't evidence for the argument that ogre stun immunity is overrated. Non-ogres also want to put their butts in a corner to prevent push interrupts, and when they do this, they can still get bashed. Ogres can't.

[Fazlazen]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I lost to Sentenza mostly because of the gear disadvantage. Not to take anything away from that French asshole, he's a good jouster and we both employed the same strats during the fights but there were so many misses on him. Myu had BIS everything but VP. Sentenza had hoshkar boots, crown of rile (I think) and was wearing slimeblood on his hands. Hosh boots mean you can wear a belt with real stats and I'm sure he had some other VP drops (pulsating gem?) so it was going to be an uphill battle.

dude lost both rounds by over 50% hp, had more total hp and more strengh than me, yet says he lost due to gear disadvantage. Also, we didn't employ the same strat, it is nice that you think we did tho.

[lecompte]

Iksar warrior is going to take less damage and hold about the same agro in vel despite being stunned because dex is easily maxed with gear on an ikky. Yes, you'll be stunned. It is frustrating, doesn't matter so long as you can hold agro.

[Supaskillz]

Warriors don't cast spells. I don't think the ogre argument holds up for them. High end gear + buffs I'm sure iksar a can hit sta cap too

[Ajkuhuun]

The tails.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by Ajkuhuun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The tails.

I agree with everything you just said.

In all seriousness, between iksar and ogre (specifically for SK and Shaman) there really isn't much difference. The extra AC over the cap makes a difference in Velious, but stun immunity is also really nice. Basically, take less damage, and do a little less damage (when getting hit) as an iksar SK or Shaman.

For necros, warriors, and monks, there is no contest. Iksar's win over every other race.

Also, who wants to be fat? Even when you're shrunk you look like a ball of lard.

[pasi]

Shaman and SK are no contest in Ogre versus non-ogre. Innoruuk worshipping Troll Shaman might have a case. The rest, not so much.

Warrior race doesn't matter much in Velious. Warriors will reach the AC hardcap and stamina cap very easily. You might be able to squeeze a bit more resists/HP out of an ogre, but nothing like the difference between ogre and non-ogre in Kunark. The extra aggro generation from stun immunity is miniscule. The main difference is really that Iksars do not have access to Kunark clicks (Incarnadine BP being the major convenience one). However, Iksars do have forage which is pretty underrated.