religion

[paulgiamatti]

It is both a man-made concept, not supernatural, and something that is innate us. Just because psychopathy and sociopathy are also innate in us doesn't make this less true.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

we wouldnt see different views on what it is to be good or evil in every society.

This statement falls in direct contrast to the hundreds of civilized nations across the world that would beg to differ.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by RobotElvis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what made humans capable of morality? It would have to be our high intelligence.

So how does a mind evolve to the point of having morality and intelligence? After all a mind is not biological it cannot evolve and grow on a Darwinian biological model.

Morality is just a concept your consciousness labeled to a survival instinct. You know deep down, not helping an old lady up after she falls over will potentially not get you laid by the hit girl who may be watching from across the street, or if your spouse found out you just looked on and didn't help when you tell the story.

Emotions are your brain helping your body navigate from point a to point b safety. Fear, to protect you from running out into danger. Love, to coerse you into procreating and staying with your mate to protect your offspring.

Is a bird in love because it stays with the same mated or life? Yes. Does a tiger compassionate because it cares for another species orphaned baby? Yea. But is any of that anydifferant than it's need to feed or sleep? No.

Morality is just a mechanism to make you a part if the circle of life, labeled morality by out brains. We are all dust in the wind.

[iruinedyourday]

Sorry typos, my iphone isn't giant yet.

[paulgiamatti]

I guess this just seems more simple to me than it does to others. It's an evolving concept, sure, but it's derived from our natural ability to help one another and show solidarity.

The systematic slaughter of Jews was not a different kind of morality. This was amorality. Let's be clear on this.

[leewong]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This statement falls in direct contrast to the hundreds of civilized nations across the world that would beg to differ.

No, it doesnt. Name two societies that have exact matching concepts of what it is to be moral. There arent two let alone hundreds. Why does Saudi Arabia law differ from US law for instance? Completely different concepts of what it is to be moral.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by leewong [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, it doesnt. Name two societies that have exact matching concepts of what it is to be moral. There arent two let alone hundreds. Why does Saudi Arabia law differ from US law for instance? Completely different concepts of what it is to be moral.

Uh what? you want two separate cultures that do two separate things exactly the same, specifically mortality?

most agree you don't just kill a stranger because they called you names on a forum.

If they do, they are currently under an oppressive regime. But in that instance they don't let you use forums so one cancels the other out!

No but seriously, are you insane? All societies have evolved drastically similar across the globe with minor differences in laws because they laws are written by different people.

I don't know what side of the argument you stand on, hopefully you're on the god created everything side, because if you are, then its so easy to counter ague that laws are different because people are different therefore there is no one god creating law for all mankind.

[paulgiamatti]

The United States and Canada. Canada and the United Kingdom. Ireland and Scotland. Sweden and Finland. Every secular democracy in existence, every free state protected by the United Nations can easily come to a consensus on what constitutes good and evil.

Just because there are some countries which are indeed theocratic dictatorships lead by cruel and malevolent despots who oppress their women, spread toxic religious fundamentalism, subjugate free speech and murder their innocent civilians doesn't mean they deserve to operate under the pretense of morality. That would be an insult to every country which has fought so hard to uphold it.

[leewong]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Uh what? you want two separate cultures that do two separate things exactly the same, specifically mortality?

most agree you don't just kill a stranger because they called you names on a forum.

If they do, they are currently under an oppressive regime. But in that instance they don't let you use forums so one cancels the other out!

No but seriously, are you insane? All societies have evolved drastically similar across the globe with minor differences in laws because they laws are written by different people.

I don't know what side of the argument you stand on, hopefully you're on the god created everything side, because if you are, then its so easy to counter ague that laws are different because people are different therefore there is no one god creating law for all mankind.

Even within the US the states disagree on when or if it is ok to kill another human. These arent minor differences. They are differences seen in every single human on the planet. No two people possess the same morality let alone two nations. I dont know why you are arguing against something so very obvious and true.

Yes, many nations share similar notions of right and wrong. Murder for instance, is considered bad. But every society and every human has a differing definition of what murder is. Where one society would feel justified in killing a person for drinking and driving another society would only make you pay a fine and consider the latter to be barbaric and murderous.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

hopefully you're on the god created everything side

Mr. Wong has been a strong proponent of secular atheism thus far, and it's been a joy to read his postings but I do have to stress this point on morality. We must not fall into this trap of confusion and conflation; morality and amorality are easily defined just like religion and secular humanism, atheism and theism, creationism and evolution.