Police Officers

[pickled_heretic]

The evidence of police corruption, especially in police districts located at large population centers, indicates that police corruption is systemic and may be the rule rather than the exception. The LAPD and NYPD taken together have a laundry list of proven cases of systemic corruption that prove this.

Take, for instance, the LAPD Rampart scandal, where not only were 70 officers implicated for corruption, but evidence was discovered that showed the chief of police at LAPD was obstructing justice and tampering with evidence. The head of the corruption task force investigating the Rampart scandal resigned and sued the department with just that claim.

As far as waiting for cops to come save me? What a joke. Cops cannot stop crime beyond deterrence. Consider response times of 15+ minutes even in populated areas. That's more than enough time for you to be raped, robbed, murdered, etc. The only person that can reliably stop a crime from being committed on your person is you. The cops will only show up in time to clean up the scene and maintain social order, not to save your life or property.

[Henini]

I 100% agree with pickled_heretic, it's pretty sad.

and in most cases, they can't even do anything to prevent what's obviously coming. because well the theft, rape, murder hasn't happened yet and there is nothing they can do about it by law.

Like, even if you report someone is in your home and is trying to rape you... when they get there, the best they can do is knock on the door and hope you answer (while you are being rapped).

Also, LEOs are people too and they rather show up after the gun fight then before. cleaning up a few dead bodies and filling up paper work is much more interesting then getting shot at. Most of the time, they do it on purpose and take their sweet time to get on a crime scene, or where an incident was reported as "happening". they want to make sure it's all done before they show up, that way they are safe and can go home to their wife and children when they are done their shift.

note: I live in Quebec Canada, cops here don't have the right to do fuck all. it's paradise for criminals. But then again crime isn't as bad as in other places, cuz people are pussies around here. I know law is different in the states and I do hope cops have more rights then here.

[yaeger]

I don't understand what this thread is about. Society has always had some method of law enforcement. The titles and jobs change, but their role is determined by the society which employs them.

You're always going to have cops (law enforcers) and your civil liberties are always open to interpretation (law).

Change the laws to change the cops.

Getting rid of the cops would throw society into anarchy. It's the threat of punishment that prevents most crime.

[pickled_heretic]

you are your own policeman, wherever you go. there is never anarchy.

[Japan]

Originally Posted by yaeger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't understand what this thread is about. Society has always had some method of law enforcement. The titles and jobs change, but their role is determined by the society which employs them.

You're always going to have cops (law enforcers) and your civil liberties are always open to interpretation (law).

Change the laws to change the cops.

Getting rid of the cops would throw society into anarchy. It's the threat of punishment that prevents most crime.

Wow this is so deep! Who would have thought that people are a product of their environment?

Of course the laws have to change; they allowed the widespread corruption and inefficiency we currently see throughout our justice system to take hold. That our system is weak even on paper doesn't change that the pigs we've got now are corrupted. Purge them.

[Bojangles]

Originally Posted by purist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^ Hey, knuckle-dragging retard, nobody gives a shit about your opinion.

Obviously you do or you wouldn't have responded to my opinion. It is OK, I realize you lack the intellectual chops to hang with the big dogs but your ego won't let you admit it to anyone. Just fade quietly away and no one will think the worse of you.

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I love how his world is filled with these 2 types of individuals and nothing else.
You really shouldn't try to lump everyone into these 2 categories of yours because that simply isn't the way the world works.

Yet another typically liberal post. You decry lumping people into simplified groups, in a post one of your compatriots started to lump all police into 1 simplified group. And you probably don't even see the hypocrisy.

I talk about 2 ends of a political spectrum and nothing else because that is the topic. Why would I discuss the libertarian opinion on heroin, or the Jewish view of polygamy, in a thread about the liberal stance of those who hate the police? This thread, and the point I'm trying to make, have nothing to do with those things. Again, please read my debate hints. A synopsis: Understand what the topic is, and what you want to say about that topic; pick facts that relate to that. The topic on this thread is the claim that police are violently out of control. Your facts do not relate to that.

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your typical catholic is anti-abortion but also against the death penalty. So where would you lump this person in your black and white world?

Since this thread is about where on the political spectrum they fall in regards to law enforcement, neither of those facts are relevant. Of course peoples' beliefs are far more complex than black/ white. To quote G.E.P. Box, "all models are wrong, but some are useful." Trying to make a statement about 300+ million people on an individual basis is far beyond our brains' ability to comprehend, so we use simplified models such as the political spectrum to make it comprehensible. Of course there are inaccuracies as with all models, the question is whether it is useful. The way in which many of you can have your reactions, beliefs and arguments predicted by this model show that it is indeed useful. The OPs simplified model that assumes all cops are bad is not a useful model as it is too far from the truth.

Originally Posted by pickled_heretic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence of police corruption, especially in police districts located at large population centers, indicates that police corruption is systemic and may be the rule rather than the exception. The LAPD and NYPD taken together have a laundry list of proven cases of systemic corruption that prove this.

Take, for instance, the LAPD Rampart scandal, where not only were 70 officers implicated for corruption, but evidence was discovered that showed the chief of police at LAPD was obstructing justice and tampering with evidence. The head of the corruption task force investigating the Rampart scandal resigned and sued the department with just that claim.

As far as waiting for cops to come save me? What a joke. Cops cannot stop crime beyond deterrence. Consider response times of 15+ minutes even in populated areas. That's more than enough time for you to be raped, robbed, murdered, etc. The only person that can reliably stop a crime from being committed on your person is you. The cops will only show up in time to clean up the scene and maintain social order, not to save your life or property.

This is actually a fairly decent post. My main problem with it is that you claim a few acts of corruption indicate systemic problems. I would like to see some facts and figures to prove this. 70 officers out of over 10,000 doesn't prove anything.

On your 3rd paragraph: Preaching to the choir.

Originally Posted by Japan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Of course the laws have to change; they allowed the widespread corruption and inefficiency we currently see throughout our justice system to take hold. That our system is weak even on paper doesn't change that the pigs we've got now are corrupted. Purge them.

Only a few % of Americans will ever spend a night in jail. Your changes to the law will not affect them much if at all. It will have very little effect on the criminal class that is the problem. If you truly want to make our system efficient you need to deal with the problem I outlined above, that only a few % of Americans account for a vast majority of our court cases and prison incarceration. Even if every cop was squeaky clean and motivated this problem would still exist. If anything it would increase the arrest rate of over 17 per criminal, costing our catch-and-release system even more money. Of course the extra time in jail would be time they would not be spending committing crimes.

If you got yelled at once by a cop and you went home to cry in the bathroom and tried to make yourself believe that you were 'this close' to saying something brave, get over it.

[unclechad2]

if you or your family is a cop go fuck each other and die your what is ruining america you piece of authoratarian shit

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[Japan]

Originally Posted by Bojangles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you got yelled at once by a cop and you went home to cry in the bathroom and tried to make yourself believe that you were 'this close' to saying something brave, get over it.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Being "this close" to saying something 'brave' is being "this close" to becoming incarcerated for 'assaulting a police officer', tased, or a corpse. That's an idiot's bravado.

No, I have never thought I was a bad enough dude to talk shit to a pig, because I know he will smash me into pieces without hesitation and I'll have no recourse whatsoever.

You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride, or the ass-kicking when the cameras aren't rolling, or the starving in the county jail from Friday til Monday, or the potentially lethal taser that gets employed with impunity on grandmas who pose no threat to anyone. No, I will not just get over the fact that some fat fucking high school graduate who sold his soul to the gestapo can and will do all of these things to me on a whim completely legally, depending on how his day is going.

All they've got to be able to do is charge you with something. You don't have to be convicted.

[braveheart]

I've never been helped or known anybody that was helped by a cop. Every family member and friend I know have had only negative interactions with cops. I've never seen a cop do something good ever. I only hear these stories where cops do good things from hearsay... stories... similar to fairy tales i guess...

these tax collecting fat pigs treat citizens like animals, capitalism is failing, I'm with you on this one Japan.

[purist]

Originally Posted by Bojangles

the intellectual chops to hang with the big dogs

I lol'd