are warriors really worth playing?

[Ezalor]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Iwas never stripped! :P Japan was using hte stone and didn't say anything. Bad form but not really malicious.

sweeping the time japan stole fungi under the rug

ezalor knows

[Taminy]

Originally Posted by Topgunben [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 6 hp per stamina vs 5.2 seems trivial. AC seems to be more important than HP, because healing spells are for a set amount and not % based.

LOL

1. Complete heal

2. HP keep you alive against both spells and melee damage whereas AC does jack.

HP > Resists > AC. Serious.

[Taminy]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warriors are necessary for raids due to their 55+ disciplines. They also have higher skill caps at 40+ mailing them slightly tankier. All of this means precisely jack for groups. However warriors do offer better dps output.

Just root the mobs in xp groups and you've given warriors "snap aggro". Yet they still tank better and do a lot more dps. Only thing you lose is utility.

[Not Sure]

Originally Posted by Taminy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LOL

1. Complete heal

2. HP keep you alive against both spells and melee damage whereas AC does jack.

HP > Resists > AC. Serious.

Not entirely accurate.

Originally Posted by Schortt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hmm. Mitigation seems to be scaling pretty well within my means of testing it.

All data is a 60 Iks Monk getting hit by the same level 59 Crystal Destroyer in Velks (max hit 350, min hit 81) for roughly 10 minutes.

All AC values were with identical buffs (aego) and achieved by removing gear down to 877. To get below that I had to load up on plat to get some AC penalty going on.

1171 AC
--- Total damage: 32455 --- Avg hit: 186 --- Swings: 399 --- Defended: 100 (25.1%) --- Hit: 174 (43.6%) --- Missed: 125 (31.3%) --- Accuracy: 58.2% --- Dodged: 18 (5.7%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 67 (16.8%) --- Riposted: 15 (4.5%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

1070 AC
--- Total damage: 44798 --- Avg hit: 199 --- Swings: 481 --- Defended: 112 (23.3%) --- Hit: 225 (46.8%) --- Missed: 144 (29.9%) --- Accuracy: 61% --- Dodged: 17 (4.4%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 75 (15.6%) --- Riposted: 20 (4.9%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

969 AC
--- Total damage: 40925 --- Avg hit: 210 --- Swings: 447 --- Defended: 115 (25.7%) --- Hit: 194 (43.4%) --- Missed: 138 (30.9%) --- Accuracy: 58.4% --- Dodged: 28 (7.8%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 68 (15.2%) --- Riposted: 19 (5%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

877 AC (naked + aego)
--- Total damage: 45533 --- Avg hit: 229 --- Swings: 498 --- Defended: 142 (28.5%) --- Hit: 198 (39.8%) --- Missed: 158 (31.7%) --- Accuracy: 55.6% --- Dodged: 28 (7.3%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 92 (18.5%) --- Riposted: 22 (5.4%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

770 AC (naked + aego + enough weight to drop my AC that far)
--- Total damage: 45136 --- Avg hit: 246 --- Swings: 436 --- Defended: 103 (23.6%) --- Hit: 183 (42%) --- Missed: 150 (34.4%) --- Accuracy: 55% --- Dodged: 19 (5.4%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 66 (15.1%) --- Riposted: 18 (4.9%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

I will try out MotG or some other much higher level mob when I have the time.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Taminy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LOL

1. Complete heal

2. HP keep you alive against both spells and melee damage whereas AC does jack.

HP > Resists > AC. Serious.

No need to mock him for evaluating the info he had off hand. He may have been viewing CH in a more contemporary light with a 7500hp cap and not have realized such hp numbers were unattainable here. Or, he may not have considered CH at all.

As for the hp, the .8/sta really is a tiny difference. It is more pronounced with def disc, but still tiny compared to the hits you'd expect from a mob you would use that against.

You are also woefully off base on the AC argument, but even if you ere not it would actually be mildly in favor of the war due to higher skill caps and war specific Gear.

Let's not be so snarky ^^

[MaksimMazor]

Originally Posted by Not Sure [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not entirely accurate.

Not classic

[Ezalor]

Originally Posted by Taminy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just root the mobs in xp groups and you've given warriors "snap aggro". Yet they still tank better and do a lot more dps. Only thing you lose is utility.

this post reeks of a guy who super regrets not being a paladin/sk for that sweet snap aggro

[Taminy]

Originally Posted by Not Sure [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not entirely accurate.

Disregards my point. Yes against a purely melee mob like that or against Vindi or something AC is great. But as I said HP is a more well rounded stat. AC doesn't do a thing towards keeping you alive against AoEs, nukes, etc. HP does. Of course you also want to strike a balance between HP, AC, and resists but to dismiss HP for AC is wrong.

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No need to mock him for evaluating the info he had off hand. He may have been viewing CH in a more contemporary light with a 7500hp cap and not have realized such hp numbers were unattainable here. Or, he may not have considered CH at all.

As for the hp, the .8/sta really is a tiny difference. It is more pronounced with def disc, but still tiny compared to the hits you'd expect from a mob you would use that against.

You are also woefully off base on the AC argument, but even if you ere not it would actually be mildly in favor of the war due to higher skill caps and war specific Gear.

Let's not be so snarky ^^

Sorry. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But it's more than just .8 sta/hp because I'm 99% certain warriors also have more innate hp than knights. Otherwise a naked knight and a naked warrior would only be about 100 hp different and I don't think that's true at all.

As for my AC argument, all I said was AC only protects you against a specific type of damage (granted it is the most common type of damage) whereas HP keeps you alive against all types of damage. I never said you should walk around with a ton of hp gear with no AC on it. You should certainly strike a balance, but all things considered HP is most important. Plus it also protects you against damage spikes / bad RNG.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Taminy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just root the mobs in xp groups and you've given warriors "snap aggro". Yet they still tank better and do a lot more dps. Only thing you lose is utility.

No, you've just decreased the healing or offensive capacity of one of the casters in your group, while having no assurance that the mob will not bee line for one of them on a break. Root can be effective, but also dangerous in that regard because the mob will attack whomever is closest to it for the duration of the spell, regardless of their position on the aggro list.

If you've a low dps group with lots of cc then, yeah you may want a war to tank for the extra dps, but in a situation like that, why not just get a monk or pet to take the hits? ^^

I am not saying warriors are useless in groups (they aren't), just they don't offer much of an advantage for their primary role.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Taminy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But it's more than just .8 sta/hp because I'm 99% certain warriors also have more innate hp than knights. Otherwise a naked knight and a naked warrior would only be about 100 hp different and I don't think that's true at all.

As for my AC argument, all I said was AC only protects you against a specific type of damage (granted it is the most common type of damage) whereas HP keeps you alive against all types of damage. I never said you should walk around with a ton of hp gear with no AC on it. You should certainly strike a balance, but all things considered HP is most important. Plus it also protects you against damage spikes / bad RNG.

I can't argue against the greater innate up since I've not heard of it and would be interested in seeing the ho difference of a naked 60 human war and a naked 60 human paladin. I might guess any perceived differences between average base war up and average base pal hp are racially driven since large races cannot be paladins^^ though we do have dwarves....

I can sympathize with the idea of hp providing a good buffer against RNG attacks lol. As an Erudite I crumble at a few back to back bad RNG. Hell, the other day I had Pain and Suffering take a couple swipes at me at half life. No joke lol.