What "made" EQs endgame feel epic?

[sox7d]

P99's wtf raid scene aside, how come

this:
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feels so much more real and epic than this:

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It may be purely nostalgia bias, but there's just something so sterile about the second one despite much better visuals.

I was walking through ST on an emu server this morning and just took in the atmosphere that such emptiness, exclusivity and scale provided.

Maybe games now days are trying so hard to make every single zone feel wondrous that it negates from the capstone zones? Perhaps a game needs to have banality in early levels for contrast to obtain that feeling.

However, on the emu server, ST was the same zone, but they had since added in many more trash mobs and some quest NPCs which were probably for some sort of story/adventure. It really showed how less can be more when it comes to atmosphere. The giant empty corridors were now heavily guarded. The long tedious spiral staircase had sets of three wraiths on every landing a la world of warcraft instance pulls. I kind of wonder if the original developers of velious considered placing more mobs in that zone and what their rationale was exactly for keeping it desolate.

Maybe I just haven't given them a shot, but I haven't seen anything similar in an MMO in a long time and wonder if there's even a market for another EQ-style game amongst people who never played. My guess is that anything unappealing at low levels will just tank and the only reason EQ got the opportunity to pull it off was their first-mover advantage. But perhaps not, EQ gave freedom, openness, fear and wonder, which are prevalent aspects shared in Minecraft and M&B... maybe there is hope for an MMO like that.

These are just my early morning ramblings. Thanks for reading "EQ nostalgia wow-sux circlejerk soapbox #834202."

IB4 "When did THIS become more attractive than THIS" image macro

[Lesson]

What made endgame feel epic for me, was that I never reached it. I think my highest too was like 28, and I played from velious to legends of ykesha

[Daldaen]

Kerafyrm, both events, were pretty epic for different reasons.

The first because it was unique and wasn't really killable. To kill him required bugs, several expansions and tons of people.

The second was because of the reason why many of the later EQ raids were. They took a decent amount of problem solving and it started to put a much bigger influence on individual performance. Teamwork was still important but they highlighted your weakest links and let you know who was able to manage in complex events and who weren't.

Most end-game raids from OMM onwards were like this. OMM, Performer, Mayong, Vishimtar, Ayonae Ro, Lethar, Beltron, All of Solteris, All of Underfoot in its first few versions (especially TFC), Pillars of Alra, Fumerack, Triunity... Those were all some fantastic events. I probably forgot a few good ones in there too.

Especially some of those being figured out before any guide was out there and when very few if any guilds had beaten them, made them epic.

Mayong in DemiPlane stays as boss-status being one of the best events of all time. So unique with the battle sequence, use of bane clickies, the endurance aspect of the event, handling death touch emotes, handling massive waves of adds. It was baller as shit.

[Kevris]

I think the early developers were creating a place where ancient dragons lived.

I think the later developers were creating an encounter for an MMO.

/shrug

[Grizzled]

Nothing is more epic, than the first time you experience it.

the concept of raiding was an experience in of itself, until you got used to it. then it became a grind just like everything else.

[joran]

I thought all the raids were epic ... even though they typically consisted of my wizzard getting resisted on all my casts and then killed in an aoe hit ... then getting rezzed .... I dont think I ever got a raid drop or any xp from a raid ever .... but at the time it still felt awesome (of coarse I was in a small guild and all that)

[Ele]

The over produced models and textures in later expansions ruined the immersion. The limited use of light sources and inclusion of night-blindness helped produce a much larger and ominous world.

[Erydan Ouragan]

Originally Posted by sox7d [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe games now days are trying so hard to make every single zone feel wondrous that it negates from the capstone zones? Perhaps a game needs to have banality in early levels for contrast to obtain that feeling.

Basically, this.

By making everything amazing, all the time, it becomes normal and ordinary. By making everything have their own instances sure eliminates a lot of the social problems related to competition but it also kills exclusivity.

Inaccessibility plays a role, too. When you first enter Sleeper's Tomb, or Vex Thal, it feels epic because you read about the zones, the mobs, the loot and then you finally get in with your friends after a long time grinding and camping for the key. You know that you have access to a part of the game that is restricted to most people.

[sox7d]

Originally Posted by Erydan Ouragan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Inaccessibility plays a role, too. When you first enter Sleeper's Tomb, or Vex Thal, it feels epic because you read about the zones, the mobs, the loot and then you finally get in with your friends after a long time grinding and camping for the key. You know that you have access to a part of the game that is restricted to most people.

Blah, that was just the word I was looking for. Well put.

[curtischoy]

Originally Posted by Kervis

I think the early developers were creating a place where ancient dragons lived.

I think the later developers were creating an encounter for an MMO.

/shrug

This.