Weapon Ratios

[curtischoy]

Originally Posted by Synthol

The topic I'm trying to gain insight on is whether ceteris paribus, do equal ratio weapons truly produce the same average damage output?

i did not read any other posts after you said this because this is a very easy question to answer. All you have to do is take something like, as you suggested, a 10/20 wep and a 15/30 wep and parse them.

Parse them on the same type of mobs, or if you can, the same mobs from a static spawn. (Brutes in WW caves near dalnir will always spawn at the same level, meaning that in the room with 3, the one on the left will aways be lvl x, middle will always be lvl y, right will always be lvl z) Parse them and look at the data by using a two sample t test for means to see if they are statistically different or not.

This method completely eliminates any other varaibles and it does not care how ac is calculated etc. It only cares about the number of swings, mean, and standard deviation of each sample. The only variables that have to be controlled are the weapons you are using, your skill using those weapons, your class, and the level of the mobs; all of which are very easy to control.

Problem solved.

[curtischoy]

Oh and control for str as well. There may be a few others you have to control for that I am missing, but they should be super easy to control.

[Synthlol]

Originally Posted by curtischoy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i did not read any other posts after you said this because this is a very easy question to answer. All you have to do is take something like, as you suggested, a 10/20 wep and a 15/30 wep and parse them.

Parse them on the same type of mobs, or if you can, the same mobs from a static spawn. (Brutes in WW caves near dalnir will always spawn at the same level, meaning that in the room with 3, the one on the left will aways be lvl x, middle will always be lvl y, right will always be lvl z) Parse them and look at the data by using a two sample t test for means to see if they are statistically different or not.

This method completely eliminates any other varaibles and it does not care how ac is calculated etc. It only cares about the number of swings, mean, and standard deviation of each sample. The only variables that have to be controlled are the weapons you are using, your skill using those weapons, your class, and the level of the mobs; all of which are very easy to control.

Problem solved.

I've thought about this, but there's a roadblock that always stops me short of doing my own testing, which is also why I came here to see if anyone has an answer.

I don't know how to 'parse'.

[emdubwubwub]

Download and read about Gamparse.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Synthlol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know how to 'parse'.

Turn your logs on and use Gamparse.

[koros]

Originally Posted by sox7d [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Been saying this forever. Thank you. Who's to say 1 dmg = 1 delay when it comes to raw ratio? I'd love to see a mythbusters series for P99 with all the bro science floating around... (hybrid penalty... AC mechanics...)

What? You're misinterpreting what a ratio is. 1/2 = 2/4. The the damage and delay are never compared. only damage to damage and delay to delay.

[Clark]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If people's enthusiasm to know matched people's enthusiasm to go ahead and parse and test...we'd have answers [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Personally I like to relax and play, if my offhand does marginally less per hour than some other rogue's off hand with the same ratio I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

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[Foggon]

Synth. Here is my answer to you, and it is not very scientific so-to-speak. I don't run a parse or anything(Kind of takes away from the fantasy right?) but I have asked friends to parse me from time to time and this is what I find...

Using faster weapons with less damage I notice my DPS is generally always about the same.. give or take about 3-4 dps..

Using harder hitting slower weapons of or about the same ratio, I tend to have about the same DPS on average as the quicker weapons, but with a bit more variance... maybe 15-20 more or less dps.

Before I had my epic I played with many weapons. Bags of weapons. My quick weapons(and my overall average dps) was about 45 dps. I feel like I saw that number everytime I asked for a parse, 44 or 45.. sometimes 48. But when I pulled out the meat luggers.. sometimes I would reach up to 68 dps, and other times I had seen it as low as 34 dps.

Some nut somewhere probably has all this calculated out, and like I said I don't have the fractions and numbers to min/max these tests of mine.. But I think simply enough it is because if you miss with a high delay weapon then you just lost a ton of play time. If you miss twice with a big delay weapon you might as well start the bus and go home.

Of course on the other hand you have the chance to hit two doubles in a row for maximum damage(Mmm dat feels) and that's the kind of stuff that causes the fluctuation in dps.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Synthlol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The topic I'm trying to gain insight on is whether ceteris paribus, do equal ratio weapons truly produce the same average damage output?

I did some parses for my monk, and my conclusion was yes, but as you are being told the only way to convince yourself is to download gamparse and give it a shot.

[GinnasP99]

Originally Posted by Foggon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Synth. Here is my answer to you, and it is not very scientific so-to-speak. I don't run a parse or anything(Kind of takes away from the fantasy right?) but I have asked friends to parse me from time to time and this is what I find...

Using faster weapons with less damage I notice my DPS is generally always about the same.. give or take about 3-4 dps..

Using harder hitting slower weapons of or about the same ratio, I tend to have about the same DPS on average as the quicker weapons, but with a bit more variance... maybe 15-20 more or less dps.

Before I had my epic I played with many weapons. Bags of weapons. My quick weapons(and my overall average dps) was about 45 dps. I feel like I saw that number everytime I asked for a parse, 44 or 45.. sometimes 48. But when I pulled out the meat luggers.. sometimes I would reach up to 68 dps, and other times I had seen it as low as 34 dps.

Some nut somewhere probably has all this calculated out, and like I said I don't have the fractions and numbers to min/max these tests of mine.. But I think simply enough it is because if you miss with a high delay weapon then you just lost a ton of play time. If you miss twice with a big delay weapon you might as well start the bus and go home.

Of course on the other hand you have the chance to hit two doubles in a row for maximum damage(Mmm dat feels) and that's the kind of stuff that causes the fluctuation in dps.

This is spot on, its made drastically evident using the imbued fighters staff 38/40. Sometimes you double attack for 200 several times in a row, other times you'll miss for 7-10 seconds straight. Quicker weapons will parse much more consistently but you can get really lucky with an IFS or something similar and put out great damage. Riposte is also alot better with a heavy hitter