Interesting old (but relevant) EQ web paper

[fugazi]

Kunark's problem was that too much good content was hidden .. and players werent actively encouraged to go out there and see it. Honorable mentions:
-Dalnir
-Mines of Nurga
-Temple of Droga

..and for any non-iksar, many of the outdoor zones such as Warslik Woods. Everyone huddled together in Sebilis and Karnor's Castle, probably because finding Chardok was too much for most peoples navigational skills.

Imagine how great Kunark would've been if the team had been a bit more experienced and had a more coherent vision. Oh god, I used the word vision, my bad ;D

[Wizerud]

Probably a good thing for him that Blizzard, the company he went on to work for, didn't take any of the advice or suggestions that he came up with in that paper.

[Glorfinrod]

Didn't they? In WoW you are never in one area any longer than it takes to make all the yellow exclamation points go away and you are hand-held from quest hub to quest hub. Sounds like the polar opposite of how he described kunark to me.

[Sparkin]

Originally Posted by fugazi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kunark's problem was that too much good content was hidden .. and players werent actively encouraged to go out there and see it.

One player's problem is another's solution. If I was designing an MMO, having lots of great hard to reach content that players actually have to work to find would be a main ideology. It makes the world more interesting.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Henini [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and?

anyone that says after 2-3 nights in seb there is no more to see has some serious issues.

That's the problem with kunark.

I don't care who you are or what you have done. and if you been in seb you know what I'm talking about.

Word.

KC + Seb > Luclin imho

[fugazi]

Originally Posted by Glorfinrod [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Didn't they? In WoW you are never in one area any longer than it takes to make all the yellow exclamation points go away and you are hand-held from quest hub to quest hub. Sounds like the polar opposite of how he described kunark to me.

What's even nicer is that you don't have to bother reading the quest text no more. You just pick em all up, check the map and go a killing. How a MMORPG turned into a more visually pleasing Facebook game [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[mimixownzall]

Originally Posted by quellren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You and Thott are kind of arguing the same thing from different points of view.

One major point of his Kunark Problem is that a player could feasibly level from 51 to 60 and never see any content other than that one dungeon. The very nature of exp grinding doesn't encourage exploration or really even doing anything other than the leveling treadmill. You pick out Sebilis, but I dont feel like Sebilis is indicative of Kunark. Karnors' is much more realistic, theres not a lot of variety in KC, its dogs, in some form, in some room, a small contingent of Undead, or the raid on VS.


I don't disagree with you that 2-3 days to 'completely use up a dungeon' may be off, but realistically, if in the example of SolB, you did Royals for 3 hours, then BnB for a while, then the next day got lucky and got in on some Fire Giants, you'd feel like you had a pretty solid handle on the place.

And his arguement against, is my arguement FOR Kunark.

If someone wants to stay in one dungeon because he/she likes it so much, they can. I don't want the game to force me to go somewhere else. Someone wants to explore, they can. If I like KC and want to spend 12 hours a day there to get 60, I can.

A developer's job is to appease as many people as he can to make the game enjoyable for as many people as possible; I feel they had done that with Kunark (once all the whiners were done bitching about the jump in weapon quality).

[mimixownzall]

Originally Posted by fugazi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

..and for any non-iksar, many of the outdoor zones such as Warslik Woods. Everyone huddled together in Sebilis and Karnor's Castle, probably because finding Chardok was too much for most peoples navigational skills.

I think the main problem was that there wasn't really anything to draw people to Chardok. Our group went there to get a sheild from the entrance area for our druid; we got one and left. If they had more desirable drops, more people would have been there.

Honeslty, exept for that sheild, I cannot think of another item out of there =/

[Henini]

Chardok crawling is actually pretty fun, it's a nice zone to explore and exp in.

but yes, it's out of the way and not much drops there. you can totally avoid it if you just care about the number next to your exp bar.

just don't turn around saying kunark sucks because you didn't bother to take your time leveling and discovering the game.

No one will hold your hand to go and discover the world.

yes, in wow they take you by the hand and have you run around to click npc's for free exp. lots of people play wow. I think it's boring as fuck. there is also very little magic in it. I always called it the McD's of mmorpgs
lots of nice colors and happy meals, but very little taste. still, kids love it!

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by mimixownzall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honeslty, exept for that sheild, I cannot think of another item out of there =/

(My apologies for not formatting this better):

Item Stats Classes How/Where Level
Argent Defender Dmg 33, Dly 49. +20 Mana Ra P Sk Wr Overking Bathezid 50
Burnt Wood Staff Dmg 8, Dly 20. Mg Multiple Creatures 33
Edge of Cabilis Dmg 25, Dly 50. Ra P Sk Wr A Sarnak Caedosaur 40
Golem Tear Ring +2 AC +2 Str +6 Wis +10 Mana All Classes A Chardoki Golem 45
Incarnadine Boots +18 AC +6 Str +6 Dex Sk Wr Prince Selrach Di'zok 58
Incarnadine Breastplate +35 AC +15 Str +15 Dex +5 Int +25 HP Sk Wr Overking Bathezid 50
Incarnadine Greaves +18 AC +6 Sta +6 Agi Sk Wr Korocust 60
Incarnadine Helm +19 AC +5 Agi +5 Int Wr Sk Multiple Creatures 55
Insignia Protector +20 AC +10 Wis +10 Int +5 Cha +10 vsMg +10 vsFire +10 vsCold +20 Mana N E Mg Wz Queen Velazul Di'zok 55
Ivory Imbued Collar +8 AC +5 Wis +2 vsMg +2 vsFire +2 vsCold +10 vsPos +10 vsDis +10 Mana Sm A Sarnak Templar 46
Jade Inlaid Crescent Axe Dmg 32, Dly 40. +6 Str +6 Agi +6 Dex +25 HP Wr Ra P Sk Multiple Creatures 58
Jagged Blade of Mourning Dmg 13, Dly 25. +3 AC +10 Dex +10 vsMg Ra P Sk B Ro Wr Multiple Creatures 45
Jagged Chokidai Spine Dmg 9, Dly 25. +4 Dex Ra Sk B Ro Wr Multiple Creatures 35
Runic Carver Dmg 18, Dly 37. Ra P Sk Wr Multiple Creatures
Sarnak Arcane Fetish +2 Dex +6 Int +5 Cha All Classes Multiple Creatures 45
Sarnak Battle Shield +25 AC +5 Str +5 Sta +10 vsMg +10 vsFire +10 vsCold +40 HP Sm D C P Sk B Wr Multiple Creatures 45
Sarnak Battlehammer Dmg 30, Dly 40. Wr Multiple Creatures 45
Sarnak Skullsplitter Dmg 12, Dly 26. +8 vsPos +8 vsDis Ra Sk B Wr A Sarnak Myrmidon 47
Shard of Darkness Dmg 10, Dly 28. +5 vsPos +5 vsDis Sk Queen Velazul Di'zok 58
Silver Swiftblade Dmg 16, Dly 24. Ra Multiple Creatures 47
Stave of Shielding Dmg 17, Dly 28. P Sk Mk Multiple Creatures 46
Symphonic Saber Dmg 11, Dly 23. +5 Int +10 Cha B Multiple Creatures 40
Vibrating Gauntlets of Infuse +23 AC +10 Str +10 Sta +20 Wis +5 vsMg +5 vsFire +5 vsCold +5 vsPos +5 vsDis +50 Mana C Overking Bathezid 55
Vibrating Hammer of Infuse Dmg 25, Dly 35. +8 AC +20 Str +10 Sta +10 Wis +5 vsMg +5 vsFire +5 vsCold +5 vsPos +5 vsDis +100 HP C Overking Bathezid 55
Withered Staff Dmg 11, Dly 24. E Multiple Creatures 38
Worn Crescent Axe Dmg 24, Dly 40. +3 Str +3 Agi +3 Dex +10 HP Ra P Sk Wr Korocust 60

------------------------------

Some nice items for mains and also some nice twink items for alts.