Spells: Dragon Roar

[arsenalpow]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eSMxRya2S8

[Erati]

The fact that the best chance at keeping a Velious outdoor dragon in one place is to figure out how to root tanks probably means that Fear is over tuned when all these tanks we are talking about are sitting at 255 RM

[Daldaen]

Already on the 2nd page. That just won't do!

[Alunova]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also something worth looking into. There are 2 different dragon roar spells:

ID - 981 - http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.htm...81&source=Live
ID - 789 - http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.htm...89&source=Live

981 has no resist check. 789 has a -150 MR check on it. (Yes I know 789 is called Dragon Fear, but it was renamed from Dragon Roar in 2007)

Kunark dragons should have the Dragon Fear with the -150 MR check (ID 789). Naggy/Vox/Velious dragons should have the Dragon Roar with no resist check (ID 981). This can be confirmed on Live by fighting each mob and seeing whether you resist Dragon Fear (ID 789) or Dragon Roar (ID 981). Torven posted some logs on TAKProject confirming this:



I strongly suspect the Velious mobs are incorrectly using 789 when they should be using 981.

2001 SPdat info:
ID - 789:



ID - 981:



In summary:

Can a dev confirm that Sontalak, Zlandicar, and Klandicar are using Dragon Roar ID 981 and NOT 789?

I have not been able to find proof that the Velious dragons should use the 0 check fear.

It's hard to find links to which ones NPC's used, but these are the ones I could find that go back close to that time period:

http://web.archive.org/web/200606170...html?spell=981

Shows only Lady Vox and Lord Nagafen use the 0 check Fear (981). This never changes even up to 2012

Spell (789) with the -150 check is attached to all Kunark and Velious dragons, including Zlandicar when he is finally listed

https://web.archive.org/web/20030506...html?spell=789

https://web.archive.org/web/20031229...html?spell=789

https://web.archive.org/web/20050508...html?spell=789

[Daldaen]

The reason I believe they used the 0 check is because that's what they use on live. As I mentioned in the quote from Torven's logs. It shows the Kunark Dragons using the -150 and Velious Dragons using 0.

Also, it would be explained by what Raev said.

Kunark Dragons are level 60, same as max level and therefore need the check to ensure it isn't too easily resisted.

Velious Dragons are 70, 10 levels above max meaning they don't need the extra -150 check as the level differential should make up for that difference.

Also the videos posted show players getting feared about 50% of the time, most ending within the first 6 seconds. Almost no one has a fear going beyond 12 seconds.

I'd have a tough time agreeing with the spells attributed on Allakhazam as the hard evidence primarily because these spells are identical other than their resist check, at least they were back in-era. It wasn't until 2006 they were named different things, allowing for you to differentiate between the two versions. I'm not sure how you could definitively attribute one affect or the other to individual NPCs before that change without seeing the database, which Allakhazam isn't based on, it was all based on user input sort of like a wiki.

It's that naming change that allows us to, on live, see which version they each use currently. And right now the Classic/Velious Dragons use the 0 check and the Kunark Dragons use the -150.

[Alunova]

Those logs are from 2014 on P99 beta? Unless I am seeing something else?

What hard evidence?

You must be watching a different video because I see 80% of the players get feared in some of these

[Daldaen]

[Tue Sep 23 18:11:57 2014] Zlandicar begins to cast a spell. <Dragon Roar>
[Sat Sep 20 08:01:00 2014] Klandicar begins to cast a spell. <Dragon Roar>
[Tue Sep 16 03:36:55 2014] Sontalak begins to cast a spell. <Dragon Roar>

[Sun Jul 19 22:11:05 2015] Gorenaire begins to cast a spell. <Dragon Fear>
[Mon Mar 23 02:26:19 2015] Talendor begins to cast a spell. <Dragon Fear>
[Wed Mar 25 02:42:33 2015] Severilous begins to cast a spell. <Dragon Fear>

The logs are from live. Where it shows them casting the different versions. You're actually able to see they are different because of the 2007 change that renamed one of them Dragon Fear.

I was saying the links you provided from Allakhazam way backs, weren't the best to go by because the two spells were identical other than the resist check.

So someone who was submitting info to Allakhazam, would see the exact same resist message, name of debuff in their buff window, same landing message, etc. A normal player back then couldn't determine which version was used by which mob.

IE they would check their logs from a Wuoshi fight, see "You resisted Dragon Roar" and submit that to Allakhazam. The database guys there wouldn't know whether Wuoshi was using the -150 or 0 resist check version so they just said this dragon casts this version arbitrarily.

[Alunova]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The logs are from live. Where it shows them casting the different versions. You're actually able to see they are different because of the 2007 change that renamed one of them Dragon Fear.

I was saying the links you provided from Allakhazam way backs, weren't the best to go by because the two spells were identical other than the resist check.

So someone who was submitting info to Allakhazam, would see the exact same resist message, name of debuff in their buff window, same landing message, etc. A normal player back then couldn't determine which version was used by which mob.

IE they would check their logs from a Wuoshi fight, see "You resisted Dragon Roar" and submit that to Allakhazam. The database guys there wouldn't know whether Wuoshi was using the -150 or 0 resist check version so they just said this dragon casts this version arbitrarily.

You don't think that would have been corrected by now though? Still to this day they list 789 for Zlandicar:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...s_with_Ability

I'll see if I can verify this

[Daldaen]

Well, again, it's player input. There are bound to be some inconsistencies. For example, on Allakhazam Gorenaire is only shown as using her Cold AE and CH. She has no Dragon Fear attributed to her. Severilous likewise isn't shown as casting a Fear on Allakhazam. Just to mention two similar circumstances of incorrect information on Allakhazam persisting to today.

After 2007 when it was easier to determine the few people killing these mobs likely were level 70-75 and had 300-500~ resists unbuffed. At that point no one would notice or care about the fear.

All I can tell you is from Torven's logs and from my own (The Zlandicar ones are posted showiing the 0 check, and I have some Sont and Kland I think) I can confirm that on live right now the Velious Dragons are using the 0 check fear.

I also found this post (though 2003):

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/show...0&postcount=10

Im not so sure. I went ahead and checked Lucy for Dragon Roar and found 2 of them - http://lucy.fnord.net/spelllist.html...xt=dragon+roar

I think Kland's is the one without the -150 adjustment. His fear barely ever hit me with ~200 MR. But when we did Gorenaire just like 3 months ago, most of her fears hit me, with ~250 MR. I think the kunark dragons have the -150 adjustment one

[arsenalpow]

As currently constructed on p99 (with the -150 fear) Velious dragons that fear require an almost ludicrous amount of raid redundancy. On live from that era there's numerous examples of normal guilds killing Zlandicar, Klandicar, and Sont. Right now only Rampage can consistently kill those targets (on blue) and its requiring something like 30-40 max resist DPS classes to even have a chance and getting them dead. Velious Dragons that fear shouldn't be bleeding edge content but right now they are.

I know that's all anecdotal, but as a level 60 DPS with 255 MR I shouldn't be feared 80% of the time for nearly max duration each time. The -150 resist check fear for Kunark Dragons that are lower level, and the 0 resist check fear for Velious Dragons that are higher level makes perfect sense and explains the current difficultly level of the content.

Thanks for looking into it Alunova.