Aftermath eating a full 10 days raid suspension

[TMBLOW]

Originally Posted by Legday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lots of nerd rage in this thread. Sirken OK'd exactly what we did in Kael. Get over what happened and start thinking of ways to work with us on fixing it going forward, as many of us have said in the last 2 days.

Spin spin spin! This is also false. Sirken "OKd" the Aftermath first attempts on the basis on his encounter logs showing your guild with FTE.

He was not aware Gimpster violated the race rules by starting early before any mobs were spawned nor is he aware that Gimpster waited near the spawn point to FTE in a similar fashion as any face tracker being near a spawn and acquiring an engage.

Yes Sirken OKd the attempts but he was not given a clear full picture what happened. Not only did Aftermath cheat to acquire FTE but they abused the spirit of the new rules stalling the encounter keeping their FTE claim while not in zone.

Seems legit to me - Sirken is now being made aware of the situation to what lead to the FTEs and it would behoove you guys to consider sitting out some Kael mobs if you feel sharing and equal chance at mobs are important aspects to your raiding community

[FatMice]

Originally Posted by TMBLOW [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Spin spin spin! This is also false. Sirken "OKd" the Aftermath first attempts on the basis on his encounter logs showing your guild with FTE.

He was not aware Gimpster violated the race rules by starting early before any mobs were spawned nor is he aware that Gimpster waited near the spawn point to FTE in a similar fashion as any face tracker being near a spawn and acquiring an engage.

Yes Sirken OKd the attempts but he was not given a clear full picture what happened. Not only did Aftermath cheat to acquire FTE but they abused the spirit of the new rules stalling the encounter keeping their FTE claim while not in zone.

Seems legit to me - Sirken is now being made aware of the situation to what lead to the FTEs and it would behoove you guys to consider sitting out some Kael mobs if you feel sharing and equal chance at mobs are important aspects to your raiding community

Tell me exactly how you know this as fact. I really want to know. Otherwise you have absolutely no merit.

[TMBLOW]

I have no merit to my claim that Sirken made an uninformed ruling?

are you stupid?

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by TMBLOW [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

are you stupid?

That's self-evident at this point. Or are you asking rhetorically?

[FatMice]

I am of the mindset that Sirken only rules on yellow text and his rule set. A vague rule set means inconsistent rulings. I think everyone can agree this has and continues to happen. Everything outside of that, as you mentioned ie. not having the full picture is here-say because he never has the full picture and frankly he probably doesn't want to have to hear every angle to even get the full picture. There are too many opinions. That the fucking glorious point of making a stronger, tighter rule set.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We don't need anymore rules. Staff just needs to start deleting characters for lack of common sense.

If you engage a target and do not attempt to start disposing of it immediately, your character should be deleted. Having one or more people weather an assault for an hot does not count as attempting to eliminate the target.

QFT

Like I said ... if you want to stop the drama on this server, simplify the rules and start laying down the law hardcore.

Make CoTH/ducking illegal for FTE purposes.

Any FTE that doesn't result in a direct engage by a capable and ready raid force illegal.


Guild breaks a rule? 30 day ban off ALL raid targets.

No more pansy 5-7 or 10 day slaps on the wrist. Break a major rule and you're out for a fucking month.

Violation involving raid targets while banned from raid targets? Permanently ban the accounts of any character involved.


What do you want to bet that if those rules were put in place all the shenaningans would stop immediately?

The quest for pixels via dubious means would result in loss of all pixels ... all neckbeards would stop playing pussyfoot with the rules.

I'd wager 1 guild would eat the banhammer and everyone would magically learn to get along. If they didn't get along, they'd be banned.

Content would open up, and the game would thrive for the rest of the server.

Too much bullshit goes on at the high end. Raid scene on blue is incredibly toxic.

[FatMice]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Raid scene on blue is incredibly toxic.

I think it is better than ever.

[Kileras]

Originally Posted by FatMice [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it is better than ever.

i think about 6 of 8 remotely invested raiding guilds are about done with it at this point. I am well aware that it is hard for anyone else to understand where the big A's are coming from when they discuss desires/intent/the scene they want... but if 3/4 of the people participating think things are pretty horrendous I don't think the notion of "play it our way or find a different box" really hold up.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Legday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sirken OK'd exactly what we did in Kael. Get over what happened and start thinking of ways to work with us on fixing it going forward, as many of us have said in the last 2 days.

Your guild leader, Detoxx, stating how long the FTE should be available:

Originally Posted by Detoxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If we get FTE, I think an hour is reasonable. If you are leaving the mob up longer than that, its safe to assume youre doing it just to break the spirit of the rule.

Considering you need 30 to kill statue, there is no reason to leave him up more than an hour.

How long was Statue and KT up after Aftermath's FTE's?

Also, Sirken defines a stall:

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Q12: What exactly does the Staff consider a stall?
A: As far as engage stalls, the Staff will grant you one DA, or about that much time on an engage before considering it a stall. So it’s important that guilds do not engage a mob until they are ready to kill it. The spirit of the rule (and what we are looking to do here) is to prevent guilds from locking up a target before they are ready to kill it, just to prevent other guilds that are ready to kill it first/faster. If you stall, you need to drop aggro immediately and concede/forfeit the mob. Any number of players can be considered to be stalling a mob, what we look for is the engage of the kill force. I know some of you want an exact number of seconds, or players, or DPS done, but the fact is that’s just not realistic with guilds being so vastly different in numbers and strength while also competing for the same content. The most important thing here is the statement about the spirit of this rule stated above.

And Sirken defines how you drop a valid FTE:

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Q10: What about a raid mob being indefinitely kited, stalled, or occupied?
A: It is against server policy to indefinitely kite, stall, or otherwise keep occupied, a raid mob without intention of killing it. You either bring it to your raid, die, or zone out. Obvious stalling of a raid mob, especially in situations to prevent engagement by another guild/party, is against the rules. Ignorance is not an excuse to break this rule, if you are pulling raid targets, we expect you to know what you’re doing.

According to Sirken's own raid rules, Aftermath lost their FTE when they zoned out per rule 10, and Aftermath commited a raid infraction punishable by 10 day full suspension for stalling per the updated rule 12 by engaging a mob before they were ready to kill it.

Sirken is a moron for the way he enforced the FTE, it goes against the "spirit of the rules" he claims are so important to the rules he's laid out. He has ruined any credit for his own rules with the way he enforced it in Kael.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

You'll be more content when some time from now members/leaders of the top two guilds lose their employment and their families over the Velious pixel sickness.