So now that druid spells got hammered...

[Noselacri]

The resist issue was always negligible. Wizard nukes have an inherent -10 or -20 modifier which is a fairly trivial amount. Until lure nukes (and content that requires them), magicians aren't significantly worse than wizards in terms of raw spell DPS. It's just that people back then were terrified of using pets in a raid, so magicians were told not to do it and it made the class artificially weak. Between their optimal DPS and later Call of the Hero, they're a perfectly decent raid class. Mod rods and the malablabla line can be useful, too.

[runlvlzero]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mage pets are not supposed to all tank like earth and damage like fire.

Planar focus items are supposed to be a big deal, not be the same as Sol Ro.

Enchanter charm is supposed to break.

Solo enchanters with hasted, weaponed pets are supposed to die when it breaks about half the time. Two resists was usually too many.

enchanter charm was breaking quite nicely on clerics of hate

[Bubbles]

The druids regen the clerics and shamans who mod rod during the buff stages of a raid encounter. Sheesh. They both have a place. In classic, i've seen both druids train adds in both planes and even mages pull. Hell i've pulled Hate on my cleric before.

Your planar roles are only as boring as you make them.

Mages: rods, maloisi (or whatever), nukes, damage shields, petting down pet mobs, dispells, nukes, summoning food and water (hey, it's useful!).

Druids: kiting adds, tracking, regen, SLN, fire/cold/magic resist (i remember them having the best FR/CR spells, but that may be kunark for the Circle-line), snare, rooting mes'd mobs (i know blind better, but still!), nukes, off heals for enchanters and clerics and such, SoW, thorns, HARMONY.. etc.

There's valuable classes, and then there is valuable people. Some of the most talented people i've seen on this server were druids, and could literally make or break planar clears and avert wipes through smarts, reactionary thinking, and using their class outside of the box.

Now you can certainly argue that once you hit Plane of Sky, mages become one dimensional and druids get to shine in only certain specfic spots, but a *lot* of classes fall into that category. Without the ability really to tap/cast on a ton of the upper tier mobs in sky, a necro (very versatile normally) is reduced to being a really $#!++y mage with slow summon times.. Come Kunark / Dragon encounters, pet casters especially see their general usefulness fall by the wayside.

It doesnt really matter, a good druid or mage or necro can always shine in the 6man dungeon crawls awaiting in the 51-60 grind, and it's a well deserved break from idling in EC on our 4th alt while waiting for a text or twitter batsignal to race to XXXX target like sheep.

Besides, you idiots, this is 2011.. It's not 1999. You *knew* what you were signing up for. If you wanted to be useful on a raid, you would have gritted your teeth and suffered through a cleric or warrior. You didn't. You got unlimited solo and duoing options levelling 1-50 and didn't end up the game-breaking class for planar and raid encounters. I THINK YOU KNEW this would be the case going in, no real reason to worry about it now. :P

[john_savage1982]

fix bard swarm kiting, extend range of AoE dots or change hitboxes to make AoE kiting easier (and effective against large mobs)......

[eriamjh]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In their defense, a lot of the devs in that thread aren't as active as they used to be (at least they don't seem to be). Additionally, (as you can see from the thread) they weren't clear on when it should be nerfed in the timeline and what the most appropriate fix would be. Nerfing druids was easy so that's probably why it was done sooner - it just meant changing some values, like "spell x has to have duration y instead of duration z". I'm glad you at least did the mature thing and bumped the thread. The only really productive thing you can do to get whirl changed, is to keep providing evidence and keep posting in that thread.

Basically, if something isn't changed for a while there's no reason it should spill into server chat or turn into some big protest. The devs don't have any sinister reason for keeping certain classes overpowered or for preferencing any class over another. There's almost always a reasonable explanation for why class X got nerfed and class Y didn't. Just try to understand this from their perspective.

I basically agree with what yaaaflow says at the end of his post. I don't think they should change things based on hunches and anecdotal evidence.

You summary of that thread misses the entire point. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] In that thread there is a rather crystal clear progression from people complaining about the bug to posting evidence and getting verification it needed to be nerfed AND would be nerfed. It goes something like this:

+ Someone complains Whirl is overpowered based on recollection alone.
+ Xzerion states that as both a developer and an enchanter he thinks it is overpowered and should be nerfed.
+ Some others also complain that it should be nerfed with basically no evidence.
+ Xzerion states that they will not be nerfing it until evidence is provided and talks about the gold standard of getting proof before making changes.
+ Some posts later half a dozen references are provided as "evidence" including links.
+ Shortly thereafter Xzerion essentially posts "It will be nerfed. We are working on it. We will keep you posted."
+ Two enchanters complain it shouldn't be nerfed until Kunark but post no evidence.
+ This all happened back in 2009.

Now there are some conflicting reports BUT it does not change the conclusion reached back in 2009 that Whirl was too OP and needed to be nerfed. See Xzerion state "but expect it to be similar to what has been reported thus far."

The entire point is that the developers had enough information to conclude it needed to be nerfed and for Xzerion to state that they were working on it but ... they never nerfed it.

But whatever. How about this. I will acknowledge that this shouldn't have spilled over into Server Chat IFF you acknowledge that their doing nothing for so long after stating that something needed be done, and in fact would be done, was the reason it did!

Hell this isn't even the first thread ranting about this that was started in Server Chat. A number of non-enchanters really aren't happy about this at all.

[eriamjh]

Originally Posted by john_savage1982 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

fix bard swarm kiting, extend range of AoE dots or change hitboxes to make AoE kiting easier (and effective against large mobs)......

Monster run speed was recently reduced to "near classic" levels I believe it said. But yes, this was the major PITA for the Bard class for a very long time. Hell ALL classes.

[Harrison]

I still say that bards shouldn't be allowed to kite entire zones. Massive oversight in design.

[JayDee]

Originally Posted by mcy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thats funny as I recall mage spells had a very hard time landing on bosses and were next to nothing as to what a wizard would do. Maybe spell resistance is different on this server but live during kunark era mages were worth jack shit in raids.

oh! They could always summon us up some water in between fights we always needed a water boy.

Mod Rod, Call of Hero (soon), and great dps

Learnzit

[Kimm Barely]

Originally Posted by Ravhin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just find it hilarious that all these changes were posted, in detail, by Uthgaard SIX weeks ago, yet people are just complaining now because (shocker) they didn't try them out on beta.

thank you for sharing this... guess its working as intended then [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[azxten]

To be honest it's starting to seem like certain classes are being left overpowered on purpose because devs play them or something.

This reminds me of how Monks can fully heal in about 15 seconds because Mend works every time you zone. There are a few classes that are ridiculously overpowered compared to classic but they aren't being changed.