I swear the server is filled with three year olds

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Qtip [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A camp should defined as being able to keep all mobs down before repops.

I disagree, and it basically comes down to whether you think people on a MMO server should have to share with each other or not.

Take a camp like A4 in PoM (one of the only sources of thrones). One player can hold down four rooms of mobs (five mobs total), even though they all have a million hit points, because PoM has a 72 min respawn timer.

But at the same time, up to four people could also share that same camp. The server rules decide which situation is better: four people sharing one room each, or one player getting all the rooms and three other players not having.

I think the staff made the correct choice in how they setup the rules here: I think four people sharing is better than three people sitting there doing nothing while one greedy person keeps everything for themself.

[Jibartik]

HEY! I take offense!

We are ADULT 3 year olds.

[loramin]

So first off, I don't mean to dogpile on you. Not every new player reads the play nice policies and commits them to memory. People make mistakes, and as long as no harm was intended and they learn from their mistake ... no harm no foul.

But I want to point something out about:

Originally Posted by hotkarlmarxbros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

though the mob was dead, the camp was empty when I arrived. I have no way of knowing who killed the mob unless they show up to say it was them that killed it.

Very few mobs (like the famous Sarnak Courier or Fippy Darkpaw) commit suicide. Less than 0.01% of the named mobs on the server I'd guess.

So by definition, if you see a mob not up, that has to mean the mob was killed by another player. And if you do read the Play Nice Policies, it's clear that (emphasis added):

In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders (or the room if there are no placeholders) cleared, within the same zone, do not die or log off. You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested ...

So, ignorance of the server rules is a reasonable excuse, but once you're aware of them there should be zero confusion: if a mob isn't up when you arrive, and you are not alone in the zone, that mob isn't your's.

[loramin]

(Or at least, you should proceed with that assumption until you either A) check with every person in the zone, or B) hang out, wait for the mob to spawn, wait a "reasonable" amount of time for the mob's owner to show up and kill it, and only after that "reasonable" amount of time if the mob is still up then maybe it actually is your's.)

[Skarne]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure I agree with the "GM included" part, but you used to sort of have a point. For awhile at least a lot of this server's rules were only available in the heads of the GMs, and it was difficult for anyone else to know them unless they read every post the staff made on the forums.

But then some bored idiot made the wiki's Camp Rules page. And soon thereafter someone who was neither bored nor an idiot (but rather a tireless volunteer staff member who keeps making things better for everyone despite having a thankless job) modified the official server Play Nice Policies to summarize those same rules (although you still need the Camp Rules page for some of the gritty details).

Between those two people and their efforts, that old excuse is pretty much gone now. Anyone who has any interest in understanding how camp rules works can either read the official server rules on the forum OR the slightly more detailed Camp Rules wiki page, and have all their questions answered.

Loramin is the best

[hotkarlmarxbros]

loramin, I appreciate what you are trying to say, and I 100% agree with you that I should either give an /ooc that I am contesting a vacant camp or just wait for the mob to pop to see if anybody comes around. In my mind, it's a quick 6 minute spawn, and if someone other than the guy who is already holding the two spawn comes over, I have no problem yielding the camp (which is why I did the /who to see who really was in the zone at the time and I didn't get anybody gating back saying "hey this is my camp."). I can see now this is not the right approach and I should make my intentions clear from the jump. That being said...

This guy is sitting at the two giant camp and coming over into what is widely known as a separate camp and telling me to GTFO. Does he want to take the single spawn as his camp rather than the two spawn? Nope, he wants all three. This would not have been settled with an /ooc of me saying I was taking the camp, that would have just fast forwarded his tantrum about 4-5 minutes. Fragmented is a bully, and people giving him a pass for acting like this is a large part of the reason why we can see a pattern of this behavior across the server.

[Sacer]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure I agree with the "GM included" part
...
Anyone who has any interest in understanding how camp rules works can either read the official server rules on the forum OR the slightly more detailed Camp Rules wiki page, and have all their questions answered.

The "GM included part" is there because different GMs can have a different ruling that's how obscure those rules are, I am not blaming the GM they do a great job overall, and no you cannot find a definitive answer from those links you gave.

Like the Frenzy camp in velk some people consider it 4 differents camp, some just 1 camp, for some it's 3 camps, almost everyone got a different opinion on that one and I'm pretty sure it's the same for the GMs.

[indiscriminate_hater]

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[loramin]

Originally Posted by hotkarlmarxbros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This guy is sitting at the two giant camp and coming over into what is widely known as a separate camp and telling me to GTFO. Does he want to take the single spawn as his camp rather than the two spawn? Nope, he wants all three. This would not have been settled with an /ooc of me saying I was taking the camp, that would have just fast forwarded his tantrum about 4-5 minutes. Fragmented is a bully, and people giving him a pass for acting like this is a large part of the reason why we can see a pattern of this behavior across the server.

I wasn't there and it's in the past, so I won't speculate about it. All I'm saying is in the future if a mob isn't up, you should assume it's not your's.

Maybe the person is at some completely different camp, half a zone away ... but even so, it's not unreasonable for someone to kill two mobs (or two camps of mobs) when no one else is killing them. Maybe there's valuable NPC X (eg. Soothsayer in Droga), and after I kill them I have nothing better to do so I go kill some less valuable NPC Y (goblin bodyguard post-nerf) while I wait.

Just because I went to kill Y (when no one else was), it doesn't mean I want to give up X. If, in order to keep X, I had to sit and wait for him to respawn (not killing anything else), that would suck.

Thus, the camp rules don't say that. In fact, they don't even matter at all until someone new shows up and communicates with the person currently doing the camp. That's on purpose: since the first person is allowed to leave mob X to kill mob Y, and thus can't know that a new person arrived, the burden is on the new person to see that X is down and thus understand that it's likely claimed.

That newcomer should assume (unless the mob is Fippy Darkpaw) that it didn't kill itself, and so when it respawns (and for a short while after) by the server rules it will be someone else's.

[kaizersoze]

You think the ice giant camp is bad, just look at the dickheads that will purposefully get in your way at Drusella. Knowing its camped. FDd right in your damn way of pulling. And wont just fuck off and do something else.