Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol still with the pocket cleric argument in a thread titled “best 4 man all caster/priest group”

Indeed, it is not titled “best 4 man all caster/priest group without a pocket cleric”, and this is OP's first post:

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And go

He also stated no goalposts were moved later on:

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think since my post is general, then there was never a goalpost to begin with. Best is whatever you personally think best means.

I am sorry that the only arguments you can make against me are nonsense, and avoid the discussion at hand.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you need to prove why you think my evidence and math is invalid.

As soon as you present some evidence I would love to run the math with you.

We’re still waiting on you to join a fast moving, high dps group on your shaman and post some evidence. Ally even invited you to join her … you said you wouldn’t be online when she was yet magically found the time to post every 30 seconds here while she was doing it.

Please provide some evidence. We have hard data from myself and Ally … and napkin math and a few isolated SOLO fights from you.

Over a dozen of us “trolls” have literally been waiting 200 pages for you to do it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As soon as you present some evidence I would love to run the math with you.

We’re still waiting on you to join a fast moving, high dps group on your shaman and post some evidence. Ally even invited you to join her … you said you wouldn’t be online when she was yet magically found the time to post every 30 seconds here while she was doing it.

Please provide some evidence. We have hard data from myself and Ally … and napkin math and a few isolated SOLO fights from you.

That isn't how this works. You provided DPS data, and I provided DPS data.

You made a new claim saying my DPS data isn't valid, so it is up to you to prove it.

Asking me to prove a negative by proving my evidence is valid isn't how debates work. Otherwise I could just say the same thing about your data, and we would get nowhere.

I am amazed you don't understand how the burden of proof works.

Trolling/memeing/insulting for 200+ posts isn't proving your point at all, either.

I also find it amazing you don't realize people can make plans for different times of the day, in advance. I am not going to cancel plans I made days before Allishia's post during the same period Allishia was playing just to play Everquest.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can look at cyxthryth's post history.

Any poster can look at any other poster's post history on this thread/these forums if they wish hehe.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is all just literal nonsense.

The problem is your post would seem to indicate that you believe that what I am posting is "all just literal nonsense", which is is objectively false, and I am not sure why you have repeatedly made this - objectively false - statement about my posts multiple times in this thread (as evidenced by the posts in it / your post history).

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is not anywhere close to a normal discussion.

I continue to to attempt to engage with you in a - normal, and civil - discussion, but you consistently/repeatedly ignore my posts & dodge the questions I pose directly to you hehe. That is not anywhere close to the behavoir of someone who is interested in participating in a normal discussion, and would seemingly be indicative that you cannot back up your position(s) with relevant, factual data, and therefore are unable to even make attempts to refute the irrefutable facts - which you cannot refute - that I have stated, nor able to answer the questions I have asked you (directly) without presumably betraying/exposing/revealing that you have been backed into a corner "arguing" from bad faith (even though this is intended to be a civil discussion - not an argument). [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

His first post in this thread was him saying he was angry at me for my opinion in another thread.

Quite the contrary! I engaged this discussion by pointing out that you were - as you had done in the past - simply calling others and/or their posts "silly" in an apparent attempt to dismiss them, as you have seemingly attempted - and seemingly continue to attempt to do - with me and my posts in this thread hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] This really isn't hard. I have linked my first post to you multiple times. I will post a full Quote of it here. Please feel free to point out anything I that I have stated in the below Quote that you believe is incorrect, and I am happy to civilly discuss with you hehe.

My first post on this thread which was posted on Page 74 in response to this Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nah, that's going to be Troxx and friends complaining because they don't have good data, and can't accept the truth or basic math.

The thread should have been over here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=638 , but the truth has thrown them into a rage they can't get out of, and must try and hide the truth with silly troll posts.

was as follows:

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Silly troll posts" huh? I see where this is going. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...401629&page=37.
Your concession in silence was accepted.

I see you haven't quite given up on this current thread just yet though. *chuckle* Take as much time as you need. You will certainly move on to hyper-focus on another thread/topic in which you'll continue to demonstrate your seemingly-apparent autism to all neurotypicals who encounter your posts.
I can only speak for myself, but your inevitable concession in silence for this thread is accepted in advance. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is clear he isn't here to have a discussion.]

You have provided zero evidence that it is clear that I am not here to have a discussion. In irrefutable fact - which you cannot refute - I have made my intention to continue engaging in a civil discussion with you known, via multiple (direct) posts/replies to your posts.

Do you intend to imply that you believe you are making it "more clear" that you are here to have a discussion (than me) by outright ignoring my posts hehe? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All of his posts on this forum are just copy/pasted nonsense that he thinks is a mimicry of me.

It is objectively false that all of my posts on this forum are just copy/pasted nonsense that I think is a mimicry of you. The problem is that your post suggests that you believe that you stating that my posts "are just copy/pasted nonsense" means that they truly/factually are "just copy/pasted nonsense", when they are - factually/objectively - not.

Now, it certainly may be your opinion that that my posts "are just copy/pasted nonsense" - but that would simply be just that: your opinion hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is a reason why literally nobody engages with him, even the other posters who are against me.

It is false that literally nobody (including yourself) has engaged with me, so I am not sure why you seemingly are making that - again, false (and unsubstantiated) - claim hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pocket clerics are not moving the goal posts, since nobody said that was a limitation.

The problem is your post would seem to betray that you do not understand - or do fully understand, and are for some reason pretending that you do not understand - that adding a 5th "pocket" character to your "arguments" (even though this is intended to be a civil discussion - not an argument) is an objective example of you moving goalposts.

The issue might be that you - seemingly - believe that you simply claiming "nobody said that was a limitation" somehow negates the fact that the context of this discussion is/was/always has been - as the title of this thread irrefutably proves - specifically/explicitly pertaining to a "4 person all caster/priest group", and therefore by attempting to bring a 5th "pocket" character into your "arguments" (even though this is intended to be a civil discussion - not an argument) - you objectively moved the goalposts.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am sorry you think simply talking about facts in Everquest is moving goalposts. That simply isn't true.

I am not sure why your post would seem to indicate that you believe that others think "talking about facts is moving goalposts" or that you making this - wholly irrelevant - apology has any bearing on the facts, which simply will not change based on what you think, nor how you feel hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Clearly I was wrong.

Hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To your point about trios, you typically see something like Shaman/Enchanter/Monk, there is no cleric at all.

The problem with your post is that it would seem to indicate/reveal/betray/expose that you (seemingly) believe that you are aware of what others "typically see", as evidenced by your Quoted post above. You have provided zero evidence to support this claim, thus it is an unsubstantiated (and probably false) claim.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shamans are generally preferred in Duos and Trios because their extra utility is more useful, and CH isn't needed for most content.

The problem with your post is that it would seem to indicate/reveal/betray/expose that you (seemingly) believe that you are aware of what is "generally preferred". You have provided zero evidence to support this claim, thus it is an unsubstantiated (and probably false) claim.

In this thread you have both implied and outright stated that you have a preference for "safety", yet in what you are (apparently) claiming is the "generally preferred Duo/Trio", the healing class is a Shaman. The irrefutable fact of the matter - which you cannot refute - is that a Shaman simply has no ability to Rez a fallen groupmate. I will remind you again - attempting to account for this flaw/inability/not-safe aspect of the Shaman class, you have attmepted to move goalposts by suggesting a 4-person group can have a 5th "pocket" character assist them. Speaking strictly mathematically, 4 =/= 5, so I am not sure why you would attempt to bring this 5th person into the equation, nor why you believe doing so is not an example of you moving goalposts - when it objectively is - hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shaman doesn't magically become less useful when you go from a trio to four people. That is the thing I find the most amazing. People will agree Shamans are great in duos and trios, but suddenly they offer nothing in four man groups. It is some great mental gymnastics to watch.

Your post would seem to indicate/reveal/betray/expose a lack of understanding of diminishing returns, which is interesting, as your previous posts seemingly indicated you were aware of such when it pertained to DPS, and - perhaps more specifically/relevantly - when you thought it favored your "argument(s)".

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As soon as you present some evidence I would love to run the math with you.

We’re still waiting on you to join a fast moving, high dps group on your shaman and post some evidence.

We’ve been waiting over 200 pages. Why not just do it. If your “math” is correct you will perform fantastically. If your shaman + pet is as “good enough” as you say it is I promise I will concede. Why would I include a mage who basically only slings dps when I could pick a shaman that does just as much dps and can also malo? I would much rather have an equivalent dps class that can also blast heal, buff, root, torpor or otherwise do crap a mage cannot to save a group in the theoretical emergency that probably will never happen … if said class can actually lay down the heat when the situation that will never happen … isn’t happening.

DPS heat-o-meter of the classes in question:

Ench: RED glowing HOT
MAGE: Hot but not glowing
Necro: a comfortably hot shower unless charming their way to “red hot” in the right camp
Shaman: the Totinos pizza rolls you microwaved 10 minutes ago but forgot about

Unlike you my mind is wide open to being changed. If you want that to happen, join a fast paced high dps group and strut your stuff. Post the parses. Name the camp. Who else was in the group with you. Remember, your competition averages 100-120 dps lazily lobbing nukes and sending in a beefy tank/dps pet.

What are you scared of? It will take a lot less time and effort than what you’re already investing in this thread.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I am not scared at all. The data still supports my view. I am simply not going to agree with your incorrect premise that my data is invalid, simply because you don't like my data lol.

I have an open mind, and I would love to be proven wrong. But simply claiming you are right because you don't like my data isn't proving anything wrong. It is just childish.

As I said before:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That isn't how this works. You provided DPS data, and I provided DPS data.

You made a new claim saying my DPS data isn't valid, so it is up to you to prove it.

Asking me to prove a negative by proving my evidence is valid isn't how debates work. Otherwise I could just say the same thing about your data, and we would get nowhere.

I am amazed you don't understand how the burden of proof works.

Trolling/memeing/insulting for 200+ posts isn't proving your point at all, either.

I also find it amazing you don't realize people can make plans for different times of the day, in advance. I am not going to cancel plans I made days before Allishia's post during the same period Allishia was playing just to play Everquest.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not scared at all. The data still supports my view. :

There isn’t any data. You haven’t provided it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There isn’t any data. You haven’t provided it.

Incorrect. I have provided plenty of data.

You do know I could just say "you haven't provided data", and we would be in the same spot, right?

Covering your ears, closing your eyes, and yelling at the top of your lungs doesn't make my data disappear lol.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That isn't how this works. You provided DPS data, and I provided DPS data.

You made a new claim saying my DPS data isn't valid, so it is up to you to prove it.

Asking me to prove a negative by proving my evidence is valid isn't how debates work. Otherwise I could just say the same thing about your data, and we would get nowhere.

I am amazed you don't understand how the burden of proof works.

Trolling/memeing/insulting for 200+ posts isn't proving your point at all, either.

I also find it amazing you don't realize people can make plans for different times of the day, in advance. I am not going to cancel plans I made days before Allishia's post during the same period Allishia was playing just to play Everquest.

[Troxx]

The data of you soloing mobs and not being in a group? That data? The irrelevant stuff that is not any representation of what you could do when grouped up with 2 charmed, hasted, quadding pets competing for the kill shot?

Silly fella. You’d be lucky if you could land more than one ice strike along with your pet that does 16-18 dps AFTER you spend 20 minute making attempts at summoning one that hits for 52.

You still haven’t answered the biggest question. If you are so confident in your math/data, why not prove it in a real-world (Norrath world) environment? Join a fast moving high dps group and show us what you can do.

I promise I’ll concede if you can pull it off. Not single fights mind you. Join that group and stay there for 2 hours. Parse all the fights including the ones where you spend your time canni/torporing your mana back and not nuking.

I would honestly be impressed if, sustained over time in said group, you could break even with my 60 unfocused water pet by itself.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The data of you soloing mobs and not being in a group? That data? The irrelevant stuff that is not any representation of what you could do when grouped up with 2 charmed, hasted, quadding pets competing for the kill shot?

Silly fella. You’d be lucky if you could land more than one ice strike along with your pet that does 16-18 dps AFTER you spend 20 minute making attempts at summoning one that hits for 52.

This is a claim that is up to you to prove. It is pretty amazing that you think a spell that has a 7 second cast time cannot be cast even once in a fight that lasts 36 seconds or more. The lack of math skills here is pretty astounding.