Shadow knight aggro

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 8.33% chance to automatically taunt while spamming is still true based on the 50% chance of success from my dataset of 9000 taunts. You have done nothing to counter this point. This is just basic math.

I think it's much closer to 4%, perhaps even 2%. Do you care to summarize your math again? Still happy to stipulate a 50% innate success rate.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it's much closer to 4%, perhaps even 2%. Do you care to summarize your math again? Still happy to stipulate a 50% innate success rate.

50% divided by 6 seconds is 8.33%. You are correct the real number is lower, but that is also true for the 50% taunt chance. There are numerous factors that reduce the chance for spammed taunt and strategic taunt to work in equal proportion. There is an X percent chance for the mob to be out of melee range, for example. If that ends up being 5%, you would reduce both 8.33 and 50 by 5%. This ends up being 7.88 and 47.5. The 5% is just a random number, not real data just to be clear.

You use the 8.33% chance and the 50% chance as base numbers to see the discrepancy between the two in the perfect scenario, while accepting you generally will not be in the perfect scenario.

[Snaggles]

The 50% success rate that is just the chance per second assuming aggro has been lost. If aggro is not lost, it’s a 0% chance of doing anything. So really it’s a game of RNG, will you lose aggro at the fraction of a second taunt remains active and your finger is pressing the button?

Hence wait and click MacroTaunt.

/doability (7-10)
/attack on (with this line it will work for mez breaks, new and improved formula)
/cast 1 (which is likely slot one Shadow Vortex

You now have 50% chance of that taunt instantly peeling aggro (since you waited to click it). For no extra clicks in 1.5 seconds you will have generated another 1k hate from the casted spell. Should the mob have run away chasing your idiot teammate who didn’t debuff or nuke in-range the taunt will miss but the spell will rip it back.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The 50% success rate that is just the chance per second assuming aggro has been lost. If aggro is not lost, it’s a 0% chance of doing anything. So really it’s a game of RNG, will you lose aggro at the fraction of a second taunt remains active and your finger is pressing the button?

When you have a 0% chance of success because you already have agro, this 0% chance applies to both strategies. If you lose agro, you have a 50% chance or an 8.33% chance of success based on the strategy you are using. It's really that simple.

The only difference between the two strategies is when you press the button. It's a single variable that is changing. All other factors apply to both strategies equally. I am not sure why this is difficult to understand.

The benefit of spamming taunt is you are spending a bit less brain power on worrying about pressing taunt, while still getting a chance of success. The benefit of using strategic taunting is you have a higher chance of success at the cost of a bit more brain power and having to click a specific button at the right time. Both strategies have tangible pros and cons. Luckily the opportunity cost of a single missed taunt due to switching between strategies is extremely small, because taunt is unreliable and it has a short cooldown. Don't be afraid to miss a taunt once in a while. If you hesitate because you are afraid of wasting a taunt, that is also hurting your success rate.

[Ripqozko]

This is the new kittens

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the new kittens

Fear the 0%!

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree taunt is a usable skill. I don't think anybody has stated otherwise.

People are simply vastly overestimating the opportunity cost of a single taunt being wasted. That seems to be their problem with taunt spamming.

Since taunt is unreliable to begin with, you have to assume the first taunt will fail, even when it doesn't. You can't plan around assuming it will succeed.

Nobody is overestimating the opportunity cost of a missed taunt. There’s simply no reason to spam it. Sks don’t need to do much, it’s not hard to taunt manually, and as you pointed out it gives you the benefit of the first taunt success rate being higher. Given you have claimed root rotting many mobs on a shaman is a viable strategy to increase dps which requires far more APM and concentration, you are clearly capable of taunting manually as well instead of lazily spamming it with a hotkey.

Therefore we can conclude you have agreed you are capable of taunting manually, and since it is superior there is no reason to spam taunt.

Thank you for admitting defeat!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody is overestimating the opportunity cost of a missed taunt. There’s simply no reason to spam it. Sks don’t need to do much, it’s not hard to taunt manually, and as you pointed out it gives you the benefit of the first taunt success rate being higher. Given you have claimed root rotting many mobs on a shaman is a viable strategy to increase dps which requires far more APM and concentration, you are clearly capable of taunting manually as well instead of lazily spamming it with a hotkey.

Therefore we can conclude you have agreed you are capable of taunting manually, and since it is superior there is no reason to spam taunt.

Thank you for admitting defeat!

Simply claiming victory without merit is meaningless.

There are reasons to spam taunt, you just want to ignore them for no sensible reason. I prefer to give people all relevant information and let them decide what to do. Hiding information isn't helping anybody.

Snaggles never uses taunt at all. In his case, spamming taunt will give him a higher chance of successfully taunting, while also freeing up his focus. 8.3% is better than 0%. Clearly he doesn't want to press taunt for whatever reason, so this is a good middle ground for a user like that. Adding taunt to a macro you are already spamming (if you have one) takes zero effort. For players that don't press taunt and have a spamable macro, taunt spam is a method to increase agro generation for free, without changing existing habits. Something is better than nothing, and some people may not have realized they could do this.

You could claim that any player who doesn't use taunt is playing incorrectly. But at the end of the day it's the player's choice as to what they do. Give them the information, and they'll figure out what works best for them.

I am not sure why you are so hostile towards discussions. It is very strange.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Simply claiming victory without merit is meaningless.

There are reasons to spam taunt, you just want to ignore them for no sensible reason. I prefer to give people all relevant information and let them decide what to do. Hiding information isn't helping anybody.

Snaggles never uses taunt at all. In his case, spamming taunt will give him a higher chance of successfully taunting, while also freeing up his focus. Clearly he doesn't want to press taunt for whatever reason, so this is a good middle ground for a user like that.

I am not sure why you are so hostile towards discussions. It is very strange.

The fact that snaggles chooses not to press taunt is irrelevant. I’m not sure why you’re using his scenario as last ditch effort for your logic. We are talking about class optimal strategy, not what one specific player chooses to do.

The simple fact remains as a tank you should be utilizing your tools to the best of your classes ability. There’s simply no reason to spam taunt. And you yourself have admitted it’s not hard to meet the concentration level needed to manual taunt.

I am sorry you are wrong and have to come at me and call me hostile and such, it’s quite childish and unfortunately only diminishes your reputation.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact that snaggles chooses not to press taunt is irrelevant. I’m not sure why you’re using his scenario as last ditch effort for your logic. We are talking about class optimal strategy, not what one specific player chooses to do.

The simple fact remains as a tank you should be utilizing your tools to the best of your classes ability. There’s simply no reason to spam taunt. And you yourself have admitted it’s not hard to meet the concentration level needed to manual taunt.

I am sorry you are wrong and have to come at me and call me hostile and such, it’s quite childish and unfortunately only diminishes your reputation.

It's not irrelevant. Snaggles is a real user that could benefit from taunt spam. You are simply in denial. An 8% chance of taunt success is better than a 0% chance of taunt success.

This thread is not locked to the narrow discussion of "the most optimal strategy" simply because you say so. That is nonsense lol. OP did not make this specific requirement either.

I have been talking about the different taunt strategies this entire time, and you cannot force me to stop simply because you want to be correct on an elf forum. It is ok to be wrong sometimes, you don't have to act like a fool whenever somebody says something you disagree with.