Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Troxx]

Example of a correct use of the word need:

To tackle AoW a guild needs clerics on a tight complete heal rotation.

Another:

To not be one rounded by AoW you need to be a warrior and use defensive, because no … not just any class can survive it (even with infinite clerics healing for infinity)


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Example of an incorrect use of the word need:

DSM knows of any camps they need a shaman.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do you keep posting a link to a post that references another post that doesn’t actually state any camp that needs/requires or for which a shaman is a necessity?



Better is subjective and debatable. That is what you said. Verbatim. You then went on to explain that a cleric will struggle with aoe’s and enchanter pets being dispelled without acknowledging that the shaman will still have to heal everyone and juggle the clerical duties when subbed in the place of the cleric.

Needs, requires or is a necessity for is more concrete and would not be debatable if true.

C’mon man. You said it. Cough it up or just admit what we all already know is true. You told a little lie to advance your argument.

Ps: As a snarky side giggle, if you are going to advocate for having a pocket cleric maybe I could advocate for every caster having 3 full bags of 10 dose wort potions so they done have to worry about WW dragon aoe damage

It looks like you finally read the post! Progress!

I've healed WW dragon groups without a Cleric. There is no struggle there. The struggle comes when you have multiple enchanter pets getting charm dispelled.

In the case of a Cleric/Enchanter/Enchanter group, every aoe dispell completely stops tanking and DPS. The group has to try and control multiple pets and the dragon. I'd honestly love to see you post a video of this group killing a 6+ Dragon.

You could certainly advocate for the group spending lots of money on things like wort pots, reapers, puppet strings, etc. But it is easy to counter that this isn't very efficient if you are camping things for money. You'll probably spend more than you make.

I am also not sure why you keep claiming the word "better" is subjective. When you say 95/100 is better than 90/100 with regards to a score, is that subjective?

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by pasi

did Entariz (7/6) on beta. Pretty easy fight w/ Kunark gear/spells.

Petted 1 gnome, banked 1 gnome, and a mammoth duder. No specific reason for mammoth over higher dps gnome other than I didn't expect to need a 3rd gnome and I did.

He's a paladin so ToT works wonders for you rune/bedlamming his AE.

Open with tash on Dargon -> zone to ToV. Now, you don't get the crazy initial tash aggro when slowing him.

Go get your pets set up with charm buried and standby pet full of trash debuffs/buffs.
Keep slowed, keep ToTing, keep bedlam/rune up on self. Have memory flux + boltrans ready to go for recharm + aggro dump.

If you have a wand or strings, it would be even easier since Boltrans is a ton of mana for a few seconds quicker cast time.

Conversely, you could probably just fight him (or any other dargon) in water to avoid the AE entirely. I wasn't that smart when I did it.

Just avoid dudes who chaos breath

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=280378

Why would I need to post a video of 2 chanters and a cleric and a 4th caster killing a target that can already be solo’d by one enchanter in kunark gear?

I’d acuse you of only knowing the ins and outs of shamans and shadowknights … but according to my sig there was a big thing you didn’t know about shadowknights …

It’s understandable if you don’t know how to play an enchanter.

I am also not sure why you keep claiming the word "better" is subjective. When you say 95/100 is better than 90/100 with regards to a score, is that subjective?

A person stating “Better” in circumstances that are matters of opinion and debatable …

… is subjective.

Is English a second language for you?


By the way, quit changing the subject. Name a camp that needs (requires) a shaman.

This is funny.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=280378

Why would I need to post a video of 2 chanters and a cleric and a 4th caster killing a target that can already be solo’d by one enchanter in kunark gear?

I’d acuse you of only knowing the ins and outs of shamans and shadowknights … but according to my sig there was a big thing you didn’t know about shadowknights …

It’s understandable if you don’t know how to play an enchanter.



A person stating “Better” in circumstances that are matters of opinion and debatable …

… is subjective.

Is English a second language for you?


By the way, quit changing the subject. Name a camp that needs (requires) a shaman.

This is funny.

Your examole of an Enchanter soloing a 6+ Dragon is from beta, and the guy saying using puppet strings makes things essier, which aren't practical to use after the recharge nerf. I'd love to see it on current P99.

As you can see, Troxx just continues to play word games because he cannot stay on topic and provide evidence as to why a Cleric is better in this group. He has admitted you don't need the cleric, so we need to compare how Shamans and Clerics work in different scenarios. He can't find a scenario where the Cleric would be better.

[Troxx]

He says puppet strings would make it easier. He did not use puppet strings. His wording actually indicates that he did not use them.

Shamans are not the only class that can solo WW dragons.


Now imagine that instead of having multiple pets lined up …

Imagine if you had a way of completely healing them on demand when necessary …

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He says puppet strings would make it easier. He did not use puppet strings.

Shamans are not the only class that can solo WW dragons

I have videos showing how Shamans solo 6+ Dragons on current P99 after recharge nerfs.

https://youtu.be/oPxeOVuX0G8?feature=shared

Provide a video of an Enchanter doing the same. Then we can compare which class is better at doing it. This is how you prove me wrong.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by pasi

If you have a wand or strings, it would be even easier since Boltrans is a ton of mana for a few seconds quicker cast time.

He didn’t use strings. If he had, it would be “even easier”.

Sorry Charlie

I don’t need to watch a video of you soloing the same target I’ve solo’d many times with my own shaman in gear worse than yours.

You aren’t impressing anyone.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He didn’t use strings. If he had, it would be “even easier”.

Sorry Charlie

I don’t need to watch a video of you soloing the same target I’ve solo’d many times with my own shaman in gear worse than yours.

You aren’t impressing anyone.

This is Troxx's problem, we see it over and over. It was the same with the JBB debate and the Mage DPS debate.

He thinks a 7 year old post about velious beta is somehow better evidence than an actual video made 2 years ago, after the recharge nerf.

He doesn't understand quality of evidence. It shows he doesn't actually know the answer, he is just blindly searching for things that he hopes will support his point.

[Penish]

any knowledgeable player would know dsm is shit 20 seconds into his vids

also lol

[Vexenu]

We have reached an impasse, where neither side of the debate can provide an example of a mob where the four man group NEEDS either a Cleric or a Shaman. I think everyone can recognize that this is because a group that already consists of ENC/ENC/XXX has the horsepower to kill just about anything possible with EITHER a Shaman or Cleric as the fourth man.

That being the case, we must consider the additional utility that each class provides. Given that Enchanters can already slow and Clerics can obviously heal, the only relevant unique ability the Shaman contributes from 1-59 is literally SoW (which you could easily get from potions). In contrast, the Cleric provides DA, ranged stuns, CH and rez, all of which are highly useful and synergize well with the group.

From this perspective, it becomes clear that the Shaman basically contributes nothing to the group besides limited healing and SoW until he acquires Torpor, at which point he can FINALLY start carrying his weight. But if you'd have gone with the Cleric, you have someone substantially contributing from 1-60. And the fact is, any group that is pushing the envelope is inevitably going to wipe on a regular basis, which makes having a rezzer in-group almost a necessity. This further tilts the argument in favor of the Cleric and against the Shaman.