Miscellaneous: P99 should have a +Mana cap and revised Base Mana Formula

[Rygar]

Would be sweet if updated for green 2.0, even if blue is chosen not to use this classic mechanic

[Rygar]

Some great proof here of the mana cap scaling at low levels. Some people post some bogus formulas claiming 6k max mana at 60 but easily was debunked.

Some intriguing reading:
http://web.archive.org/web/200105042...ML/000565.html

I know must of you will not believe this. But I am almost 100% sure there is a mana cap. I added 190 mana from items alone to a twink mage I made. My lvl 1 nuke spell only cost 7 mana. So I should be able to cast well over 20 just with my gear alone, not counting my mana I had already. Well I couldn't cast anywhere near 20. More like 8 or 9. Does anyone know when I get my mana that my items say I have? And please spare me of your disbeleifs on this subject unless you go test it out(then I would like to hear it).

Mana is capped (or maybe artificially limited is a better phrase) at low levels. NOt sure when the cap lifts but it's there.
I created a Iksar Necro to cast Invis Undead on my Wizard once (so my wizard could get down to the jester in Kurn's). Invis undead is a lvl 1 necro spell that cost 40 mana - I never found a way to cast it at level 1, you just can't have that much mana at lvl 1.

I put the basic gold/plat Jade (mana/hp) jewelry on him but it didn't help. I put my Tolamupj's Robe and Shrouded Viel on him and he still coudn't cast it. That's about +200 mana worth gear total. So I leveled him up to level 2. Even with the +70 mana worth of jewelry I still had to give him the +30 mana face piece before he could cast a 40 mana spell on my wizard.

[Rygar]

Another interesting find.
http://web.archive.org/web/200105042...ML/000363.html

OK. +mana items do NOT give the full mana that they say they do. I have tested this and determined that they give a percentage based on your INT / WIS whichever is used for your class to generate mana. If you have a moonstone ring that gives +30 mana and you give to a human wizard with 100 INT, the ring will give him exactly 15 extra mana. In order to get the full mana you must have your INT maxxed at 200 (WIS if you are a priest class) Take your INT divided by 2. That is the percentage of the mana from the +mana item that you will actually recieve from it.
While Abashi once stated that +mana and +hp items give the full amount indicated, my own tests, and the tests of some friends would indicate that Abashi's statement was mis-informed as pertaining to +mana items (his statement was accurate for +hp items).

I think that is interesting as in my last post a level 2 necro put on a +70 mana item and couldn't cast a 40 mana spell, but could once he equipped an additional +30 mana item.

Leads me to believe there is some truth to the above where the +mana is both level based and potentially related to your INT/WIS current standing.

[1corinthians13]

Nice find Rygar. This is interesting. Wouldn't open sourcing Project 1999 make it easier for us to find these sort of non-classic bugs and send in patches for review?

[Rygar]

Certain open sourcing info may be abused, such as analyzing for dupe effects and such. There are benefits as well for sure, but I foresee p99 neckbeard abuse.

But back to issue at hand: classic mana formulas would be dope

[Rygar]

Just cruising the archives, found a 2/14/2001 post talking about how casters can get capped on +mana gear, making a differentiation from +INT/WIS. Is a rant on how they should add casting haste or something as further gear simply doesn't increase their total mana once capped.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010223.../057442-4.html

What I don't understand, is why VI keeps refusing to give casters some form of 'haste' (for lack of a better term).
We have an INT cap, a +mana cap, so why are we continually getting items that add +int and +mana? So I can have a change of clothes that does the same thing but with the stats switched around? Where is my uber gear, that makes me a BETTER CASTER? No such thing exists. I still cast the same, I still get resisted the same, I still have max mana...I never become a BETTER CASTER. I just have a few hundred extra mana, maybe. I get to cast one more (resisted) spell. Or twitch a cleric one more time. That's the BEST I can hope for out of any new gear. Then you hit the cap on your mana...and there are no improvements from then on, ever.

What would be SO imbalancing about getting BETTER at casting your spells as you increase in levels? Isn't it...*gasp* logical that you would?

I just don't understand. What would be the problem? The ONLY difference in me naked and me with my gear is my mana pool. And my mana pool is still too small...if I even have anything to do besides feed mana to the cleric.

I just want to be useful, and wanted. Is that so much to ask? =(

Possibly a bit open to interpretation if they are just adding up max +mana on items known to them, but seems more than that.

[Rygar]

More evidence:
https://web.archive.org/web/20000510...ML/000002.html

posted 04-25-2000
Hail all,
Well as i so hurriedly ran from butcherblock to cabilis with a lvl 9 monk. I gave my lvl 1 iksar necro items that totalled around 130mana. To my amazement, it added a big total of 0 mana. i thougth it might just be being lvl1, level 2 nada, level 3 nada, lvl 4 didn't get to play enough before i got booted. I did however cast my lvl 1 shield spell a few times and i can't tell if it added any at lvl 4. If anyone else has any information or same problems please let me know. I also have noticed that the iksar have a xp bonus to lvl 4 so far that i noticed. maybe its the newbie xp i dunno.

Others go on to say they don't have that problem from items, but this player is saying specifically to a level 1 or early toon, not an advanced character. They go on to reference EQ devs about soft mana cap which has already been referenced in the OP.

[Rygar]

Just posting as I find em.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010530...&f=14&t=000736
April 2001

I wanted to know if there were any downsides to the plus mana gear? Or does that depend on levels?

So if you give a level 1 player all of the mana items you can find it will not give them that much mana even if they have 200 int/wis.

Yep mana is capped per level. Each item gives like 1/20 of the total mana it gives at lvl 1 and like 2/20 at lvl 2 and like 3/20 at lvl 3 and Im banking that the cap is removed at around lvl 20. Sounds easy and something not too hard for verant to code.
This is speculation but the fact that mana items are capped is not.

[Rygar]

https://web.archive.org/web/20010601...07027&go=newer

April 19, 2001
I have a twink kit I put together to start all my low lev casters out with. All total My noobs start with +165 mana. At lev 1 when I put on all the equipment I get an extra 3 bubs and some change. It looks like I lose a ton o mana but I'm enlargeing my mana pool and I have to med up the added mana.

Here someone makes a claim of having a twink kit adding +165 mana on a level 1. I presume there is +INT/WIS gear that is improving their base mana as well.

There is no way a level 1 with +165 mana equipped gains only 3 bubbles of mana on their bar, that would imply they start with something like a 110 base mana pool without any gear on.

I would interpret this as they possibly doubled their INT/WIS which increased their mana a few bubbles, then the +mana cap allowed 1 extra bubble of mana. My guess is they had more in the realm of 30 to 40 total mana

[mycoolrausch]

I don't play p99 anymore so instead ill just have to live with the guilt my wizard was unfairly overpowered with too much mana, often doing as much damage to a mob as an ungeared level 56 rogue