New Druid Advice from the experts

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Two ensnares are 70 mana. Midlevel, you'll have a Charm Animals at 120, two ensnaring roots at 120 mana, and two Stinging Swarms at 130 mana. At level 50 you'll have an Allure of the Wild for 220, two Engulfing Roots at 200, and maybe you're able to finish them both off with a clicky dot. So you're gonna be spending 4-500 mana per pair of kills in a best-case scenario. 30 mana for Invis v Animals is completely irrelevant.

Saving a spell slot is nice but it's the instant cast that makes it useful.

30 mana adds up over time with multiple clicks. People spend a lot of money on FT1 items, even though you only get 1 mana per 6 seconds. 20 clicks per hour is the equivalent of an FT1 item.

I know you like disagreeing with me simply for the sake of it, without evidence. You often end up being wrong when you disagree simply for the sake of it. I'd like for you to explain in detail why you think saving 1.5 seconds with Goblin Ring vs Ring of Stealthy Travel (2 second cast time) would be significant.

Remember that Goblin Ring requires you to target yourself, so you lose a bit of time on switching between targets. Something like Ring of Stealthy Travel is self cast, so you can maintain your existing target. That is why I say you're saving like 1.5 seconds on Goblin Ring. Maybe less if you aren't as good at target switching.

[kjs86z2]

lol

[bcbrown]

I should be so lucky to have 20 charm fights per hour. What level is your enchanter at now DSM?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I should be so lucky to have 20 charm fights per hour. What level is your enchanter at now DSM?

As you can see, Bcbrown has no explaination for why the instant invis is better. He is simply disagreeing for the sake of it.

Therefore he must fall back on the fallacy of "you don't have a level 60 of every class, therefore you can't possibly know how the class/game works."

I can play that game too if you wish. Recall that Bcbrown has never used a Goblin Ring for charming on a Druid:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...2&postcount=11

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I took a druid to 60 charming as much as possible, and I've never had a goblin ring. Maybe I don't know what I'm missing...

Not really sure why he thinks he is an expert on the subject.

[Goregasmic]

The ring gives you more control on charm breaks which means you can break with the mob at a sliver of life consistently. This lets you finish mobs with less mana intensive nukes and nuking is often the most mana intensive part of the ordeal. I routinely finish mobs in their mid-high 40s with a sub 300dd nuke, which is sub 5% hp. Failing to do so will require you to send a couple big boys downrange and that kills your mana efficiency. On my ench with like +14mana regen and TOT every 2 minutes I'm still limited by mana so on a druid it can only be worse. Some camp might not warrant it but if you have more than enough mobs on tap why not be efficient?

It is also absolutely easier to not lose mobs when they're a hair away from death, that is not even up for debate. With my keybinds, its 2 strokes and its done, almost instant. You can claim you have S-tier invis timing but when you're juggling a 5 mobs reverse charm your pet is basically losing anywhere between 5-20% hp per round. That 2 seconds delay is bound to miss the mark more often than not as it can be tricky even with a ring. It doesn't have to be that extreme though, just 2 rounds with double attacks and max hits can make you lose your mob.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The ring gives you more control on charm breaks which means you can break with the mob at a sliver of life consistently. This lets you finish mobs with less mana intensive nukes and nuking is often the most mana intensive part of the ordeal. I routinely finish mobs in their mid-high 40s with a sub 300dd nuke, which is sub 5% hp. Failing to do so will require you to send a couple big boys downrange and that kills your mana efficiency. On my ench with like +14mana regen and TOT every 2 minutes I'm still limited by mana so on a druid it can only be worse. Some camp might not warrant it but if you have more than enough mobs on tap why not be efficient?

It is also absolutely easier to not lose mobs when they're a hair away from death, that is not even up for debate. With my keybinds, its 2 strokes and its done, almost instant. You can claim you have S-tier invis timing but when you're juggling a 5 mobs reverse charm your pet is basically losing anywhere between 5-20% hp per round. That 2 seconds delay is bound to miss the mark more often than not as it can be tricky even with a ring. It doesn't have to be that extreme though, just 2 rounds with double attacks and max hits can make you lose your mob.

Again I simply disagree. Nukes require you to stand still and cast them. Adding 1-2 seconds of cast time to your Nuke via Ring of Stealthy Travel doesn't make or break an encounter. It's really not difficult to break charm a second or two early.

Reverse charming is a riskier form of charming, so you are going to have RNG issues damage-wise regardless of which invis item/spell you end up using.

If you think it helps, that's great! That can make the game more fun. But I've seen no evidence to suggest there is a significant benifit to a 1-2 second faster break. If your mob is 1.5 seconds away from dying, you already are breaking at a very risky time RNG-wise, especially with potential lag or latency issues.

EDIT: Think about it this way. The longer you wait to break a charm, the higher the risk of losing the mob due to RNG damage. This is especially true if you are breaking charm 1-2 seconds before the mob's death at higher levels.

You would somehow need to show that the increased risk of losing the mob from breaking as late as possible is not as bad as the extra downtime from occasionally using 2 nukes instead of 1. Usually the loss of the mob is a bigger waste of time/resources than an occasional extra nuke from my experience.

[Goregasmic]

All I have to say is with gobby ring I don't lose mobs, I just don't, even reverse charming. And I hardly ever have to use my biggest nuke, much less nuke more than once. If you don't care about efficiency all that much it is one thing but I've been OOM often enough on big reverse charms that I know those savings are important. Or sometimes you're on a tight timer for repops and you just can't afford to med much. Those savings keep you going longer/faster.

If you don't want to use the ring that's cool but denying it is an immense QOL is just silly, especially as an ench for spell slots. I do have plans for a ring of stealthy travels somewhere down the line but I don't think I'll be getting rid of the gobby ring even then.

[kjs86z2]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As you can see, Bcbrown has no explaination for why the instant invis is better. He is simply disagreeing for the sake of it.

Therefore he must fall back on the fallacy of "you don't have a level 60 of every class, therefore you can't possibly know how the class/game works."

I can play that game too if you wish. Recall that Bcbrown has never used a Goblin Ring for charming on a Druid:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...2&postcount=11



Not really sure why he thinks he is an expert on the subject.

Yeah well thats the thing. If you're good at the game you don't need one, its just QoL. Doesn't matter if you're arguing for mana savings, never missing 100% xp, etc...all of you dippy doos are wrong.

Which brings us back to the OP: he is a druid on a budget. The last thing he should be buying is a gobby ring.

spells > Tunare DS gloves > velious bracer > velious BP > snare ear > AC/HP gear > epic MQs > goblin ring <------ pay attention to this one OP and disregard the rest of the garbage in this thread

enchanter? sure, you don't need the other clicks so it gets bumped up a little further in the priority list...and you're able to farm cash camps far easier making the cost trivial

[loramin]

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

spells > Tunare DS gloves > velious bracer > velious BP > snare ear > AC/HP gear > epic MQs > goblin ring <------ pay attention to this one OP and disregard the rest of the garbage in this thread

Great list of gear for a starting druid ... that they can't use if they're actually ... a starting druid.

• velious bracer - requires 45 (and faction a starting druid can't easily get)
• velious BP - same as above (plus the MQ is far more expensive)
• snare ear - won't work until 49
• AC/HP gear - will do nothing to make you level faster
• epic MQs - doesn't work until 50 (and an MQ is way out of a starting Druid's price range)

Look if you're twinking, by all means get your Druid stuff that won't work until 45+. But if you are a starting druid leveling up, you need a Goblin ring to increase your charm fighting XP, and literally nothing else, except for the gear you loot while leveling (until your 40's when you'll want a Lumi staff to quad kite).

If one item isn't enough, go get some utility items (snare, root, refresh timer clears, or even JBoots or Enduring Breath); they might save your life sometime. In short, buy the stuff listed on Equipping a Druid (that you can use).

But for the love of god don't waste plat on stuff you can't use until 45, or on pointless "my numbers went up" items, because they won't do anything to speed up the journey to 45. Ask yourself this simple question: when was the last time you were at max health, got beaten up, and died ... but if you'd just had 30 more HP, you would have survived? That situation is incredibly rare, but it's the only time having a few more AC/HP will actually impact you.

Smart druids charm until their 40's, because it's the fastest way to gain XP. The goblin ring will save you mana in every one of those charm fights and guarantee you get 100% XP from every kill. That's huge.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ask yourself this simple question: when was the last time you were at max health, got beaten up, and died ... but if you'd just had 30 more HP, you would have survived? That situation is incredibly rare, but it's the only time having a few more AC/HP will actually impact you.

You are mixing things up a little bit here. You are correct about HP when it comes to upgrading individual pieces at high levels. At level 60, paying 300DKP for Onyx Chain Sleeves to get +40 HP in the arm slot is silly. That +40 HP from the Onyx Chain Sleeves isn't going to save you 99% of the time, and there are cheaper sleeve options like Vambraces of Discontent.

When twinking a new char, +HP gear is amazing. This is for two reasons:
1. You don't have any HP gear while naked, so putting some on gives you a big initial boost.
2. The way HP scales by level, HP gear is very strong at lower levels.

At level 1, a caster has maybe 20 HP. Getting 6/65 Rings alone at level 1 gives you 6 times the amount of HP you start with. You can survive way better with 6x more HP. You can get 5/55 Rings too if you want to save money, they are like half the price.

A level 30, the +HP gear I have on my Enchanter was basically half of my HP pool. I had somewhere around 400ish HP base, and +400ish HP from gear. So I had 2x the HP I should normally have if I was naked. That helps quite a bit to survive charm breaks. It isn't a difference of 30 HP like you describe.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Smart druids charm until their 40's, because it's the fastest way to gain XP. The goblin ring will save you mana in every one of those charm fights and guarantee you get 100% XP from every kill. That's huge.

You are correct the goblin ring saves mana, but it's player skill that determines if you get 100% XP on kills, not instant cast invis. You are putting way too much emphasis on instant invis, and have no data to support your position that it is significant.

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah well thats the thing. If you're good at the game you don't need one, its just QoL. Doesn't matter if you're arguing for mana savings, never missing 100% xp, etc...all of you dippy doos are wrong.

Which brings us back to the OP: he is a druid on a budget. The last thing he should be buying is a gobby ring.

spells > Tunare DS gloves > velious bracer > velious BP > snare ear > AC/HP gear > epic MQs > goblin ring <------ pay attention to this one OP and disregard the rest of the garbage in this thread

enchanter? sure, you don't need the other clicks so it gets bumped up a little further in the priority list...and you're able to farm cash camps far easier making the cost trivial

You say OP is on a budget, while asking OP to spend like 23k on a Thurg Leather BP MQ before getting basic HP gear like 6/65 rings. This is a silly list in terms of priority, unless you are well funded or in a raiding guild.

Spells come first, you did get that right. Druids can usually make enough money for spells with things like porting. Especially now with less dial a ports working.

Priority should be more like this:
1. Spells
2. Basic cheap HP/Mana gear (6/65 or 5/55 Rings, Golded Jaded Bracelets, Iksar Hide Cap, etc.)
3. Goblin Ring/Ring of Stealthy Travel (If you can afford before level 45-50, otherwise get other cheaper clickies first)
4. Cheap Kunark Clickies (Elder Spiritists Arms and Gloves)
5. Velious Clickies (Tunare DS Gloves, Thurg BP)
6. Epic MQ