Armor Class and Raid Tanking

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol

velious might have been beaten in kunark gear, but it was definitely done with warrior tanks trying to stack HP and every clicky you can imagine, especially soulfires

Indeed. But they didn't have BiS Velious raid gear, which has more HP than BiS Classic/Kunark gear. Guilds have had years to build up soulfire bots to counter the soulfire nerf.

Just doing a quick look, a full BiS Warrior in Kunark era gear has around 700 less HP than a BiS Veilous Warrior, assuming the Kunark Warrior chose the best HP items in each slot.

This means even HP stacking isn't required past a certain point, as you don't need 100 HP items in every slot to beat all raid content. It simply makes things a bit easier. AC can also make things a bit easier.

[Naethyn]

AoW still max hits 1800 ac warrior.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AoW still max hits 1800 ac warrior.

Indeed. Everybody in this thread agrees with the idea that AoW probably has the highest Wrath value in the game.

Last time I checked, every other raid target in the game is not a copy/paste of AoW.

Last time I checked it takes months, if not years, to fully BiS a Warrior.

Increasing your AC by getting a Koi Orb for cheap will probably help your tank game on easier raid targets while you are waiting for full BiS. 100 HP items do not grow on trees.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AoW still max hits 1800 ac warrior.

Are there any raid targets where you'd want to prioritize AC over HP?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are there any raid targets where you'd want to prioritize AC over HP?

I don't think anyone was suggesting to prioritize AC. Everybody knows stacking 100 HP items is the best route to go for an all around raid tank. No one in this thread has said otherwise.

That doesn't mean AC is useless, or it has never helped any tank on any raid mob.

If you can spend 10 DKP on a Koi Orb, and you only have 200 Worn AC, you'll see some positive gains in your tanking while you wait your turn for an expensive 100 HP item.

People seem to forget that 100 HP items are not dropping like candy, or cost 10 DKP. You are often waiting a while for these items, especially if you aren't playing heavily.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think anyone was suggesting to prioritize AC. Everybody knows stacking 100 HP items is the best route to go for an all around raid tank. No one in this thread has said otherwise.

Glad to hear you agree with prioritizing HP over AC for raid tanking.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Glad to hear you agree with prioritizing HP over AC for raid tanking.

I never said otherwise. You can check the thread.

I see you haven't disagreed with the idea that AC can be useful.

I see you haven't disagreed with the idea that getting upgrades for cheap can be a good thing.

I see you haven't disagreed with the idea that 100 HP items can be expensive DKP-wise.

Glad to hear you agree with me.

[Snaggles]

Aside from swapping out a few items for greater mitigation situationally (koi orb, HGL’s, Vulak or Gaudralek), it doesn’t really seem to make sense to worry much on the AC build since that stuff will come with hps on higher end gear. Even then, it’s not a necessary thing. Most high end warrior swaps are between aggro and low aggro dps weapons; or MT with a 2h for select fights.

Full disclosure, my new 60 warrior is pretty rough and I haven’t main tanked with it…he’s about 5800 with a sapper, nev dagger and twisted sword. Maybe my mind will change but I’m just aiming for a few budget hp slots. The bag game is already a mess so aside some ragefire armor I don’t plan to go collecting.

The best argument for AC (I feel) is for a farming shaman. We have one in our guild with impressive gear, I believe he’s around 1400 or 1500 AC and has a ton of mana. Rolling torp while taking hits from blue cons is more efficient which essentially lets you canni more efficiently. Plus your torp is limited to 50hps while rolling. I can’t think of a blue con killing warrior/sham duo where that would be a limitation where a mega AC build would close the gap. Or where the shaman player wouldn’t have a cleric to swap to.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aside from swapping out a few items for greater mitigation situationally (koi orb, HGL’s, Vulak or Gaudralek), it doesn’t really seem to make sense to worry much on the AC build since that stuff will come with hps on higher end gear. Even then, it’s not a necessary thing. Most high end warrior swaps are between aggro and low aggro dps weapons; or MT with a 2h for select fights.

Full disclosure, my new 60 warrior is pretty rough and I haven’t main tanked with it…he’s about 5800 with a sapper, nev dagger and twisted sword. Maybe my mind will change but I’m just aiming for a few budget hp slots. The bag game is already a mess so aside some ragefire armor I don’t plan to go collecting.

The best argument for AC (I feel) is for a farming shaman. We have one in our guild with impressive gear, I believe he’s around 1400 or 1500 AC and has a ton of mana. Rolling torp while taking hits from blue cons is more efficient which essentially lets you canni more efficiently. Plus your torp is limited to 50hps while rolling. I can’t think of a blue con killing warrior/sham duo where that would be a limitation where a mega AC build would close the gap. Or where the shaman player wouldn’t have a cleric to swap to.

On the Shaman point you are correct. Now that it is confirmed that shields increase your softcap, https://wiki.project1999.com/Yakatiz...ld_of_Crafting is an insanely good item since it increases softcap by 75. Looking at my data, a Shaman with Vulak shield could very well mitigate similar to a Paladin/SK in terms of reducing hits. Obviously an SK/Paladin will still take less damage due to having parry, riposte, and a higher dodge skill.

My point about getting AC gear is more related to the idea of how to spend DKP. When I was raiding heavily, I found that getting cheap upgrades was a great way to go, as you can get good boosts for a fraction of the price. For example:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Vambraces_of_Discontent were like 30 dkp

https://wiki.project1999.com/Onyx_Chain_Sleeves were like 350 dkp.

Spending 10x DKP for essentially +40 HP is a bit silly. Getting Vambraces of Discontent for dirt cheap gives you high AC and good resists in your arm slot while you wait for a spirit wracked cord.

If you are in a position where you think spending 30 DKP is a significant setback in your savings for a 100 HP item, you probably aren't raiding enough to get those 100 HP items in a reasonable amount of time. It is going to take a long time to fully BiS.