Game Mechanics: Dual wield is not classic

[Akame]

Originally Posted by Nocte [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're reading too much into my post. I was just making an observation based on two recent posts. I probably should have added a smiley or something. Smileys make it all better.

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In Lotro when I played there was a saying on our server that you could not get mad at anything I say so long as I put a smiley after it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Server rule.

[Jify]

Originally Posted by Omnimorph [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I remember in classic the primary was always the faster weapon and you could only dual wield when your primary had swung. T'is why wurmslayer, despite being very nice, had a downside (40dly!) i remember having it with a yak, and i would usually swing 4x every round, because the dly of my secondary weapon had been met.

He's correct. I remember this as well.

Offhand would only swing with your main hand.

[Uaellaen]

Offhand would only swing with your main hand.

yes i agree

and offhand delay was meaningless ...

[Haynar]

I remember something too about offhand delay. I do not know exactly how it worked though.

Someone find something to back it up. I would be more than happy to see about adding this to our list, to possibly implement the mechanic. But I need something to back it up, and more details on how exactly it should work.

Haynar

[Vonblund]

Originally Posted by Jace [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I remember offhand being dictated by your main hand as well, maybe im just old school and never bothered to research it but I thought it was still like that on live until I read this post lol. Learn something new everyday!

I'm with you there!

[Jify]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I remember something too about offhand delay. I do not know exactly how it worked though.

Someone find something to back it up. I would be more than happy to see about adding this to our list, to possibly implement the mechanic. But I need something to back it up, and more details on how exactly it should work.

Haynar

Close, but not exact:
http://web.archive.org/web/200105300...&Class=Warrior


Q: Does a warrior get double attack with off hand when duel weilding?
A: Yes. But since you must first roll a successfual dual attack, and then roll a double attack, its frequency does not become apparent until higher levels.

ie: Your mainhand must swing before you get a chance of swinging your offhand.

[dojo420]

i don't read that quote as establishing a relation between main- and dual wield-attacks. to me it just means you can only get a double attack on your offhand if the dual wield check was successful (i.e. you swing your offhand).
it doesn't say anything about the (in-)dependence of main- & offhand.

i looked through alot of the patch history on allakhazam and couldn't find dual wield mentioned anywhere.

[Akame]

Dojo's right, rolling a check for a successful double attack still can be independent of a primary attack. You'd need to find parses from 2000 or so that showed the system only rolled a dual wield check after the primary.

I.e. it could be this:
... main hand swing check
... main hand double attack check
... offhand dual wield check
... offhand double attack check

but, if timer is independent eventually you are going to get those offhand swings coming in before the main hand swings in the parse, which is why you really need an actual parse over a FAQ statement like the one above.

The real fun part then is reading parses for riposte's. It's easiest with a 1hs/1hb setup so you can see crushes vs slashes, but what if it looks like this

... main hand slash!
... main hand slash!
... offhand crush!
... main hand slash!
... offhand crush!

That looks like you've just done two rounds of attacks and missed the offhand double attack, then the main hand double attack, and offhand double attack. When in reality you actually just riposted in the middle of your attack round.

... main hand slash!
... main hand slash! (double attack)
... offhand crush! (dual wield)
... main hand slash! (riposte)
... offhand crush! (double attack offhand)

Timestamps are pretty much a must at that point. Sadly, it looks like the steel warrior forums have been wiped of anything past 2004 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do believe that a primary weapon will ALWAYS swing first when you hit attack, however from then on I believe the primary and offhand timer's are independent and which one will swing first after the initial round will depend on the specific weapon's delay.

[Kraun]

DW requiring the mainhand to swing was always a myth and proven wrong. Put a non melee weapon mainhand and watch as your offhand will still swing. Another way i remember it being tested was wurmslayer mainhand fs dagger offhand and the offhand swinging twice for every mainhand swing.

Another common melee myth that has been around since classic is that 10 delay is the lowest a weapon can go and that haste would not bring it any lower.

Moss covered twig was a overpowered weapon because of the dmg bonus being applied more often.

[Yoite]

Kraun has a good point. On live you could still duel wield attack even with a non weapon in main hand, just a a stein or more common, a bard's instrument.

Soo, hmmmmm.