sk starting points

[Lune]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It makes me a little sad that you think I'm just attempting a silly gotcha. I'm trying to make a more fundamental point about your approach to rhetoric. I'm also aware that you find it somewhat frustrating how concise most of my replies are, so here is far more verbiage than this topic deserves.

It's possible I misinterpreted what you wrote. I see two ways to interpret "Nobody thinks you are correct simply because you say so.": 1) emphasizing 'because'; this is accusing Troxx of an appeal to authority, "this is true because I say it is true". I considered and discounted this interpretation because I don't see Troxx making an appeal to authority. If this is what you meant, I'd like to see where you think he is doing that. 2) emphasizing "say"; what you say is insufficient to convince anyone. This is what I assume you meant, because the previous sentence, "Please start providing evidence for your claims.", is discussing the content of his argument. If you had preceded this sentence with something like "You're no credible authority on EQ", I would have been more inclined to the first interpretation.

But yes, I agree with Troxx. Not because of who he is or any authority he has, but because the content of what he says makes sense to me. I find his argument to be reasonable and convincing. I find your argument to be unconvincing. OP mentions "I will have access to all or most of group content gear at level 1"; if you want to convince me, show an Iksar SK magelo with 180-200 strength at that level of gear. Not raid BIS, but "all or most of group content gear". (I'm also curious what the OP would find convincing)

But I think the larger, more fundamental point I'd like to make regards what I would characterize as your preoccupation with "evidence". You're constantly asking for evidence. You frequently mention that your motivation is to put information out there and let the audience make their own decisions. As someone who is far less experienced or knowledgeable than any of y'all, I believe I'm qualified to speak as a representative for the cohort of people you claim to be addressing. Your constant emphasis and demand for "evidence" makes you less credible.

Not all forms of disputes or arguments require evidence. If there is a factual dispute, then obviously evidence is pertinent. But this dispute, like most that you seem to find yourself in, is not factual. It's about which of several mutually exclusive options is better. And better is subjective. As far as I can see, there's three positions one can hold:

• Intelligence is best, because the other relevant stats will be capped easier late-game, and more mana is always better.
• Stamina is best, because an SK's main job is tanking, and it's important to cap stamina/HP as quickly as possible.
• Strength is best, even though it might eventually be overcapped, because late game stats won't make much difference, whereas it will make a measureable difference in quality of life while leveling and uncapped.

Evidence has very little to do with the strength of the argument when everyone is in rough consensus as to the mechanics affected by each of these attributes. It's the quality of the reasoning that matters.

And so this is my unsolicited feedback for you: I find how you structure your arguments to be weak. When you say "no one will be convinced by what you say" to someone I find credible, it makes you less credible. When you demand evidence in a subjective dispute, it makes you less credible.

If I'm the sort of person you're trying to convince, I hope this feedback is helpful. If not, please feel free to disregard it. Either way, I hope you're having a great day.

What a great post and I respect the kindness.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is incorrect. Video games are built on rules and math. Factual claims such as which starting stat is best can be proven with evidence, and there is a best and worst option statistically speaking.

Dude do you not understand that you haven't provided any useful math? That is why people are accusing you of napkin math, because you are completely missing the full picture logically.

Yes, x INT will translate to x mana, which will translate to x HP with lifetaps. Now calculate the relative DPS burden of spending that time casting and not attacking, and then compare that to the amount of HP saved by the increased DPS, killing the mob more quickly and decreasing the damage it does to you by some amount. This is what I mean when I say you are drawing the wrong conclusions from your "facts". Most of us are extremely experienced with EQ and have a good deal of instinct when it comes to the game mechanics. I don't have to calculate the average weight of a fine steel weapon x the # of slots in an inventory of Shralok Packs to tell you any nerd is going to be encumbered because it has happened to me on characters.

(Although the answer is 6.55 average x 50 slots (to generously allot 16 slots for food and other items across 8, 8 slot shralok packs) = 327.5 - 25% WR = 245.6 weight, or an encumbered OGRE in raiding gear... not including worn equipment. I banged it out because I can't resist dunking on someone who doesn't reason in good faith. Even just 20 weapons in Shraloks would weigh 100, which coupled with worn gear is going to encumber most iksar. Hope there's a vendor nearby. Oh wait, you're iksar).

Just like I can tell you most knights never make it to 60, much less to full BiS gear (not just from personal experience, but from statistics someone gathered on the matter), because they are pretty weak classes for most applications at high levels and can be frustrating to play. And that's aside from the poor comparative utility of INT / max mana which I'm done repeating.

You don't have to provide actual numbers to know killing a mob faster is going to be more useful than having a slightly larger mana pool under 90% of circumstances when leveling. Want to prove that wisdom wrong? Good, provide actual math.