Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[Troxx]

I'm going out on a limb here and I will try a different angle. I am doing so in the least "troll" way possible.

Dear DSM,

I understand your point of view. This does not mean I agree with the totality of all your views, but I understand it. At the root source, you are not wrong on this. Your math shows it, but any of us who have played and know this game knows it is a true thing. Your point on this subject is VALID.

Your point:

Once you are 60 torpor is so stupidly OP that you don't need more regen ... or any regen at all. This is a TRUE statement. It is objective. You know it. I know it. We all know it. Torpor is so ludicrously OP that you could have -15hp/tick regen and it wouldn't matter much. You are still always full mana and always full health if you maintain and work to keep it up.

This is not up for debate.

A level 60 shaman with torpor doesn't need regen anymore.
I agree.
You agree.
We all agree!
They don't need a fungi tunic - drop it for vindi bp
They don't have to obsess about keeping regrowth up - it is LESS (but not entirely) relevent.
It's why a barbarian shaman at 60 functions so well. If regen was that important, a barbarian shaman would not be successful - but they are.

There is no disagreement here.

You and I both (and we all) understand the power of Torpor: 200 mana (before specialization) heals 1200-1500hp on a class that converts hp to mana = limitless mana.

Where is the disconnect?

I feel that you personally put too much emphasis on the value of the ability to avoid being stunned on an attack that has a 25% chance to land every 8 seconds from a mob hitting you. Beyond that, if they DO land a BASH on you - it doesn't actually trigger a stun all of the time.

Your point:

The ability to avoid any bash stun is superior to innate regen.

My counter:

Bash *stuns* are actually not that common for 99.9% of game play. The marginal benefit you might get from avoiding said stun is insufficient to the global benefit of always having racial regen.

Discussion:

Truths:
-You don't need FSI to win encounters a shaman
-You don't need innate regen to win encounters as a shaman
-You can be 100% as successful with neither regen nor FSI

My perspective:

-Bashes have a 25% chance to hit every 8 seconds and most of the time the bash does not result in a *stun* for which you would get any benefit from if you had FSI.
-If slowed, this potential occurrence is less frequent

-In order for FSI to be worth any significant tradeoff a few criteria need to be met

A) the mob is hitting you and not somebody else (or rooted ... or on a pet)
B) the mob has to actually bash you (25% every 8 sec if not slowed)
C) the mob has to bash you during the exact moment you were trying to cast a spell
D) said bash has to interrupt your spell and annoy you with 1-2 secs of waiting to "try again"
E) that spell was actually important in a meaningful, game changing, or encounter-altering way
F) the timing of said bash and interrupt had to have an IMPACT on the outcome of the fight.

If all criteria are met - FSI has value at that exact moment in time.
For all other moments in time - FSI did not not change the outcome.

So yes ... I do agree that FSI has usefulness.

But!

I acknowledge that all of the above is the perfect *bad storm*

I just solo'd 29 mobs on my level 56 ranger and had one stun for the whole lot that was from a bash.

So ... a racial regen that is 100% useful anytime you are less than 100% health vs a racial thing that situationally could provide a benefit?

On a class that converts hp to mana?

For all levels 1-60 + torpor at 60?

Nah.

Yes you are right.

Yes I am right.

I am more right.

You cannot and have not proved otherwise.
You have not and will not be able to mathematically prove otherwise

*Caveat: there are 59 levels before torpor!

/thread