Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[Vandy]

Posted this in the GM Rulebook thread as well. These threads fill up with crap so fast all the post where people are actually giving suggestions get totally buried.




I think if they are dead set on keeping the training aspect in that some sort of rules should be added to it.

Such that if you wish to train a guild that is going to attempt a VP run you have to have your VP raid force outside ready to move in. If you have no intent to immediately raid VP then you shouldn't be able to send in people to stall or grief.

[Godefroi]

You can clearly see who the 9% on top are with the adderal and cocaine earned pixels

and the 91% of the rest of the server that has a normal life

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Vandy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Posted this in the GM Rulebook thread as well. These threads fill up with crap so fast all the post where people are actually giving suggestions get totally buried.




I think if they are dead set on keeping the training aspect in that some sort of rules should be added to it.

Such that if you wish to train a guild that is going to attempt a VP run you have to have your VP raid force outside ready to move in. If you have no intent to immediately raid VP then you shouldn't be able to send in people to stall or grief.

I just think training shouldn't be allowed at all, it wasn't on live. Unfortunately though the guild on top seems to favor a less competitive raiding scene filled with griefers and people who just want to waste time.

Sure, FE and any other guild could band together and join forces against TMO's training-army in VP. But why? Why should folks have to utilize a non-classic raiding mechanic to compete fairly on a server? Why should training be allowed in VP and not in other zones? I mean, the rulebook clarifies Planes of fear/hate/sky as non-CSR as well right? These are questions that a large portion of the playerbase wish were answered and/or addressed.

Originally Posted by Krissdu64 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nothing's wrong except YOU. Rules are already established, they won't change because you're failing. Make a guild with these 250 people and go in VP, earn your pixels instead of whinning on every threads

For you to say that its just one player or guild who doesn't like the way things are here is just ignorant. Sure, server population is up right now but its been at this point before in the past. The same thing always seems to happen, a new wave of players starts and levels up, then they quit when they realize what raiding on p99 has become. Its a never ending cycle that's been going on 2+ years now, and until stuff is fixed/changed it will keep happening until velious is released.

To me, the raiding scene would be way more fair and competitive without the presence of training. It's gotten to the point where training outside of VP is rarely enforced. For example there are hundreds of fraps of one specific person continually training VS pit, admitting to it in /say and laughing about it, and going unpunished. How long should any guild be expected to put up with stuff like this without atleast fighting back by breaking rules themselves or simply giving up and leaving the server like IB (the last guild who was on top besides TMO.)

Stop being ignorant and take a look at the bigger picture here.

[quido]

I think training should be allowed in VP to prevent people from spawn-socking the dragons there.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think training should be allowed in VP to prevent people from spawn-socking the dragons there.

So, you support a non classic mechanic being allowed to prevent guilds from employing a classic raiding stratedgy?

Plus extended variance has pretty much rendered poopsocking pointless for the most part. What irks me is that people in favor of training can't come up with one legitimate or logical reason why it should be so.

Preventing poopsocking doesn't count in my opinion because for a guild to sit on a spawn, remain prepared, and kill the mob when it spawns takes more dedication across a guild than camping 1 tracker there. You're saying you want to train the players who are more dedicated than you? That doesn't seem very competitive at all.

It just seems to me there is no valid reason to allow training in any zone. But if the p99 devs are dead set on allowing training there, why not allow training in other classicly "non-csr" zones as well? I mean the rules are the basis on which competition thrives, and the rules here are either not enforced at all or they are changed so often that the players who are affected don't even know what they are anymore. All guilds have been guilty of intentional/unintentional rule breaking, so there's really no reason why we can't all agree that training is shitty and should be avoided whenever possible and not allowed by the gms/devs if possible.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, you support a non classic mechanic being allowed to prevent guilds from employing a classic raiding stratedgy?

Plus extended variance has pretty much rendered poopsocking pointless for the most part. What irks me is that people in favor of training can't come up with one legitimate or logical reason why it should be so.

Preventing poopsocking doesn't count in my opinion because for a guild to sit on a spawn, remain prepared, and kill the mob when it spawns takes more dedication across a guild than camping 1 tracker there. You're saying you want to train the players who are more dedicated than you? That doesn't seem very competitive at all.

It just seems to me there is no valid reason to allow training in any zone. But if the p99 devs are dead set on allowing training there, why not allow training in other classicly "non-csr" zones as well? I mean the rules are the basis on which competition thrives, and the rules here are either not enforced at all or they are changed so often that the players who are affected don't even know what they are anymore. All guilds have been guilty of intentional/unintentional rule breaking, so there's really no reason why we can't all agree that training is shitty and should be avoided whenever possible and not allowed by the gms/devs if possible.

how come then ur guild only semi work in popsocks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Vandy]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just think training shouldn't be allowed at all, it wasn't on live. Unfortunately though the guild on top seems to favor a less competitive raiding scene filled with griefers and people who just want to waste time.

Sure, FE and any other guild could band together and join forces against TMO's training-army in VP. But why? Why should folks have to utilize a non-classic raiding mechanic to compete fairly on a server? Why should training be allowed in VP and not in other zones? I mean, the rulebook clarifies Planes of fear/hate/sky as non-CSR as well right? These are questions that a large portion of the playerbase wish were answered and/or addressed.

Yea training is stupid and shouldn't be allowed... but it is and probably will be left in so there is less work for the GMs. But the griefing that can be done is ridiculous I would never want training to be allowed in other planes because far too many people have access to those areas and if someone just FEELS like being a dick with intention to raid they can just go train a raid that is trying to do work whether it be a fear clear or a Sky raid.

So since this mechanic is clearly here and they don't want to drop it totally then why not find a way to modifiy it without add a TON of extra workload for the GMs. That is why you should have to have a raid outside the zone you are training ready to move in and kill.

So let's say that guild A wants to attempt VP on a server reset. If guild B wants to train guild A they would need a force ready and waiting to zone in and move on the targets in order to train guild A. Guild B would be forced to prioritize VP over any targets that are outside of VP. Yes guild B can split it's force but that would still open up many targets to other guilds who are NOT vp capable as the smaller force that is sent for outside targets "shouldn't" be able to monopolize the enitre raid scene.

with the current situtation guild B can just split its forces and hit outside VP targets while sending a few members to train/kill/delay any force that decides to attempt a VP dragon on a repop day. If no other guild attempts VP on a repop day then yes guild B may still monopolize outside targets but that's because there is no pressure on VP.

[Tasslehofp99]

I just meant that since training outside of vp happens regularly anyway and is rarely enforced, why not go full retard with it and just make training allowes everywhere? Why is VP different than innoruuk or cazic thule?

By the logic provided by those in support of sanctioned training, shouldn't training be allowed in all non-csr zones? Wouldn't that just make less work for the gms as well?

The simplest solution would be to either outlaw training in all zones or allow it in all zones. I mean, 2 years+ of VP with training and still no one deems it worth the time required to attempt 1 dragon. I think a lot of people fail to realize that competition at this point in VP equates to who can stay awake the longest and field a kill force while keeping opposing trainers dead. How is that any different from poopsocking? How is that more competitive than if trains weren't allowed and guilds were forced to pull and kill dragons while avoiding training eachother?

I'm still waiting for a legitimate reason training should be a part of raiding at all, other than it allows the top guild to keep all others out until they are finished farming the zone. This is not competition, and it is diminishing the health of the raid scene. Tons of more people would likely play if VP wasn't a total shitfest and actually provided competition. Not to mention the fact that those of us on the shit end of the VP stick are left with very little faith that velious release is going to do anything for the stagnant raid scene. Especially when there's already talk of sanctioned training being allowed in velious raiding zones as well.

[Godefroi]

the staff clearly gives 2 fucks and clearly won't enforce classic CSR rules

I mean, it's free gaming and drama generates traffic, why would Big sean fix anything.

[Clark]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just meant that since training outside of vp happens regularly anyway and is rarely enforced, why not go full retard with it and just make training allowes everywhere? Why is VP different than innoruuk or cazic thule?

By the logic provided by those in support of sanctioned training, shouldn't training be allowed in all non-csr zones? Wouldn't that just make less work for the gms as well?

The simplest solution would be to either outlaw training in all zones or allow it in all zones. I mean, 2 years+ of VP with training and still no one deems it worth the time required to attempt 1 dragon. I think a lot of people fail to realize that competition at this point in VP equates to who can stay awake the longest and field a kill force while keeping opposing trainers dead. How is that any different from poopsocking? How is that more competitive than if trains weren't allowed and guilds were forced to pull and kill dragons while avoiding training eachother?

I'm still waiting for a legitimate reason training should be a part of raiding at all, other than it allows the top guild to keep all others out until they are finished farming the zone. This is not competition, and it is diminishing the health of the raid scene. Tons of more people would likely play if VP wasn't a total shitfest and actually provided competition. Not to mention the fact that those of us on the shit end of the VP stick are left with very little faith that velious release is going to do anything for the stagnant raid scene. Especially when there's already talk of sanctioned training being allowed in velious raiding zones as well.

Haven't followed this thread as closely lately, but that is a good point. Hope sanctioned training isn't allowed in Velious that's ridiculous [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]