Rotations =/= handouts

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So many people think this way, and it's the biggest hypocrisy in EQ. If you play EQ you track shit all day long, indirectly. You sit in your group and wait for named to respawn, you kill AC placeholders, you press track looking for Quillmane, you wait multiple hours for Hadden to spawn. It doesn't matter if your on a monk in trakanon's lair, or an enchanter camping frenzy, it's all the same thing. I tracked Trakanon for an hour yesterday while watching Netflix. Would my time have been better spent quading on my crappy druid 4th alt? BDA can track raid targets 24/7 if they want to. They choose to track everything else instead.

Last I checked, except for maybe Quillmane, everything else you mention has no variance, you know when the PH or named will spawn, and you can set a timer for it.

You're also not competing for FTE since you "own" that camp, so you will get that kill as a reward for your time when it finally spawns. Pretty sure if you were at the pained soul camp in TT for 8 hours, it finally spawned, and someone nicked it from you... you'd have a problem with that.

These things also don't require 15+ of your buddies camping out their mains nearby and you hope they all log in before the opposing guilds get their forces ready. All of those collective man hours lost if your guild's javelin wasn't fast enough.

So yeah, two drastically different situations with drastically different stakes the way the raid scene works currently.

[Nlaar]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, it isn't. Because you guys have been playing VarianceQuest (hereafter referred to as VQ), which is not classic. So if some sort of raid agreement is worked out and people can get back to playing EQ rather than VQ, it's not a handout. Because VQ was an arbitrary non-classic impediment introduced by the server admins. People talking about handouts would be like MLB players after drug testing 'oh these people get to play without shooting up'. VQ is harder than EQ, so if you've been succeeding at VQ your attitude is that ordinary EQ is trivial. Well, I'm sorry, but that's the game.

Indeed Loraen. The fact is how "competition" on this server has been defined and acted upon is crazy. I would like us to revisit how we want to compete on this server.

400-1000 Trak teeth? That is crazy.

[Daldaen]

Handouts = a high end guild killing Trakanon and then giving away Donal's BP and Singing Steel BP in a /randomfest in EC. Then giving away Trak Guts MQ to the first bard to /tell. And giving Torpor away to the first shaman to bear form and /dance.

Rotation = lower end guilds have a chance to gather their 25~ members together, on a single night, at a pre-designated time, to attempt to kill Trakanon. Without having to track for 24 hour window to check for spawn or worry about another guild logging in 40 Alts who are fully buffed in lair and leapfrogging the engage.

Every point of damage dealt, taken and healed will be done by the smaller guild in the rotation. They will have killed (or wiped) the mob on their own. Receiving their own pixels.

Some of you don't seem to have a good grasp of what the word handout really means.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Nlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Indeed Loraen. The fact is how "competition" on this server has been defined and acted upon is crazy. I would like us to revisit how we want to compete on this server.

400-1000 Trak teeth? That is crazy.

That is the fault of Delayed Velious.. not TMO [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Last I checked, except for maybe Quillmane, everything else you mention has no variance, you know when the PH or named will spawn, and you can set a timer for it.

You're also not competing for FTE since you "own" that camp, so you will get that kill as a reward for your time when it finally spawns. Pretty sure if you were at the pained soul camp in TT for 8 hours, it finally spawned, and someone nicked it from you... you'd have a problem with that.

These things also don't require 15+ of your buddies camping out their mains nearby and you hope they all log in before the opposing guilds get their forces ready. All of those collective man hours lost if your guild's javelin wasn't fast enough.

So yeah, two drastically different situations with drastically different stakes the way the raid scene works currently.

It doesn't matter if there's no variance. You're doing something time consuming and monotonous. You have to pay somewhat attention, you don't know when the mob will appear. In terms of time and effort put in by the tracker it's exactly the same thing. How is FTE a consideration at all? Your guild does not enable you to jav quicker or farm DA idols.

If big guilds can camp at multiple targets, small guilds can camp at 1 target if they want it. See what Taken is doing with Inny. I bet most of your guild has more raid level characters than I do.

I like you and I agree with a lot of your posts, but I simply disagree with you on this. You said guilds don't want to track targets and answer batphones, but it's really not that much to ask from people who play this game. Nobody has to answer 3 am batphones. That's why you have 100+ people on a batphone. The people who are awake or in other timezones, or just don't give a shit can answer. The people who are sleeping can sleep if they want to. If you want a target, you will track it and drop this mindset that you're somehow above tracking. The only mob that actually gets "poopsocked" is VS.

[Jarnauga]

When i see some FE people talking, i wonder why they hate TMO.

[falkun]

Fantastic sig Jarn.

[Nlaar]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is the fault of Delayed Velious.. not TMO [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yup, I would agree that the delay of Velious has contributed to the absurd amount of Trak teeth that have dropped during our P99 Kunark Era. The distribution of where those teeth have ended up is a whole different story.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesn't matter if there's no variance. You're doing something time consuming and monotonous. You have to pay somewhat attention, you don't know when the mob will appear. In terms of time and effort put in by the tracker it's exactly the same thing. How is FTE a consideration at all? Your guild does not enable you to jav quicker or farm DA idols.

So you're saying the Hooded Black Cloak I camp with a single toon and no competition for FTE every 22 minutes the PH/Dhampyre spawns like clockwork for the time period that I choose to play for the evening is the same effort as camping out 15+ toons for a mob that spawns in a 96+ hour window, after which it spawns, at possibly sometime outside of my awake hours let alone my play hours, I'm still not guaranteed my time is rewarded because my guild might not even get FTE?

Yeah, okay, we'll agree to disagree on that one.

If big guilds can camp at multiple targets, small guilds can camp at 1 target if they want it. See what Taken is doing with Inny.

I already had a member of Taken comment on what they thought of it in a different thread, and they think it's ridiculous and taking a toll on their guild, too. It raises the stakes way too high and contributes to the current raid scene. Just wait until Taken puts that kind of effort into camping something to have it sniped from them on a technicality.

This model of competition is not sustainable for the majority of the server, despite two guilds trying to dictate it as the barrier to entry. Rogean has stated this status quo is not acceptable. Which is why Rogean has asked us to come up with something better.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you're saying the Hooded Black Cloak I camp with a single toon and no competition for FTE every 22 minutes the PH/Dhampyre spawns like clockwork for the time period that I choose to play for the evening is the same effort as camping out 15+ toons for a mob that spawns in a 96+ hour window, after which it spawns, at possibly sometime outside of my awake hours let alone my play hours, I'm still not guaranteed my time is rewarded because my guild might not even get FTE?

Yeah, okay, we'll agree to disagree on that one.



I already had a member of Taken comment on what they thought of it in a different thread, and they think it's ridiculous and taking a toll on their guild, too. It raises the stakes way too high and contributes to the current raid scene. Just wait until Taken puts that kind of effort into camping something to have it sniped from them on a technicality.

This model of competition is not sustainable for the majority of the server, despite two guilds trying to dictate it as the barrier to entry. Rogean has stated this status quo is not acceptable. Which is why Rogean has asked us to come up with something better.

You don't know what you think you know [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]