ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE) - Page 150

Sirken · #**1491** 10-13-2014, 12:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Aenor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not Edmure's men at the Twins. Rob left men there before Riverrun was freed. And Theon didn't have 50 men :P

Edmure was the ranking man there. who else was there that out ranked Edmure or rather was left to direct those men. soldiers are sheep, they require a shepherd.

theon didnt need 50 men, that's the entire point of the saying. its not a literal translation, its an expression that was born out of how easy it is for a small amount of people to hold winterfell against a much larger host.

Mandalore93 · #**1492** 10-13-2014, 06:52 PM

Edmure is ostensibly the #2 man in the Kingdom of the North. I don't think he's ever technically stripped of being Lord-Paramount of the Riverlands, is he?

Had an argument on Reddit with a few people about how politically inept the Starks were. http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comme...m52n?context=3 if anyone is interested in reading/added on.

Beastro · #**1493** 10-16-2014, 02:31 AM

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Originally Posted by Aenor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another plot hole the size of the Grand Canyon.

He could have if he'd presented it differently. The bigger issue I have is Balon rebelling and then targeting mainly the Starks ensuring that both him and the Starks are beaten that much quicker and his second rebellion crushed yet again instead of taking a few seconds to realize that working with them, or at least not fighting the Starks would ensure the Ironmen got what they wanted.

After that they could attack the Northmen if they wanted to, but not until the Crown was defeated.

The Iron Isles seems to be Martin subtly mocking the Vikings and showing them to not be awesome warriors we all love together but stupid, murderous idiots, but maybe I'm giving him too much credit.

Beastro · #**1494** 10-16-2014, 02:59 AM

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Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

well, imo the Iron Islands are pretty weak. as far as their numbers, i dunno where u got the number 20,000, because that does seem a bit absurd, considering that'd be about the strength of the entire north, and equal to or greater than the south. i imagine that they are closer to 4,000-5,000 men. also remember, they are only really successful on the water. yes they took winterfell from a skeleton crew, but Asha says from the beginning they couldnt hold it, because its true, they cant. if they had 20,000 people, then they could hold winterfell np.

Only excuse for this would be the Iron Isle calling up a higher amount of men than other lands that needed men as farmers and other occupations. This and casualties possibly crippling them could be explained away by the taking of salt waves so they'd be able to maintain massive families the way polygamous societies do.

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i guess its "possible" that Dragon Steel was the term used to describe Valyrian Steel before Valyria was a thing, but that would mean that Valyrian Steel isnt actually steel.

Valyrian steel is in universe speak for Damascus steel - the weapons made from it came from India and were only called Damascene through trade of them centered around that city. With that in mind I doubt it's wise to dismiss Valyrian steel as something the Valyrians invented, only made popular and could well have existed well before them.

Sirken · #**1495** 10-18-2014, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beastro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Iron Isles seems to be Martin subtly mocking the Vikings and showing them to not be awesome warriors we all love together but stupid, murderous idiots, but maybe I'm giving him too much credit.

couldnt agree more. the Edmure thing was boneheaded, but i can see it from him. hes younger, hes eclipsed by the shadow of his father and uncle, looking to prove himself, etc. but Balon has no exuse. hes been in war, and hes lost before. after what he lost in the last rebellion, that being said, Balon never told Theon to hit winterfell, and had theon listened to Balon, things could have gone very differently. but alas, he didn't. and now we have Reek, rhymes with meek.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beastro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Valyrian steel is in universe speak for Damascus steel - the weapons made from it came from India and were only called Damascene through trade of them centered around that city. With that in mind I doubt it's wise to dismiss Valyrian steel as something the Valyrians invented, only made popular and could well have existed well before them.

my point is that there was not any kind of steel weaponry in westeros at the time of the Long Night. and as such Dragonglass can not be valyrian steel, damascus steel, super awesome wolverine steel, or any other kind of steel.

Beastro · #**1496** 10-18-2014, 10:47 PM

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Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

hes been in war, and hes lost before. after what he lost in the last rebellion, that being said, Balon never told Theon to hit winterfell, and had theon listened to Balon, things could have gone very differently. but alas, he didn't. and now we have Reek, rhymes with meek.

Theon's crap is small potatoes, what I have in mind is more them dicking about around Moat Cailin and shit making it harder for the North to keep fighting ensuring they'll lose sooner (barring cloak and dagger shit like what happened) and then the Crown coming after them.

Had Balon been rational in the least he'd have hit the Lannisters as hard as he could them being distracted and far more wealthy than the Northerners all the while indirectly helping drag out Robb's rebellion longer and reducing the danger of the second revolt going the way of the first.

I think them going after the North is BS on Martin's part because he needed to find something to keep pressure on Robb even though he's never losing battles, only it took completely stupid thinking on Balon's part to make that happen, thinking that goes beyond my suspension of disbelief.

Sirken · #**1497** 10-19-2014, 12:14 AM

correct me if im wrong, but dont they dick around MC as part of the plan to lure the few remaining troops out of winterfell? If balon was smart, he would have let the north and south fight it out while he continued to raid ships and small villages. i have no idea what his end game was, theres no way balon could be dumb enough to think the lannisters would let balon be "king" of the iron isles after the dust settled.

robb was dumb.

regarding balon... are you thinking Euron? Faceless? Clumsy?

Beastro · #**1498** 10-19-2014, 01:38 AM

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regarding balon... are you thinking Euron? Faceless? Clumsy?

You mean if Euron had more to do than just knock him off? No.

Sirken · #**1499** 10-19-2014, 04:59 AM

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Originally Posted by Beastro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You mean if Euron had more to do than just knock him off? No.

so youre thinking one of the most well known and recognized ironborn just snuck on to pyke unnoticed, and just gave him a shove, then snuck out, only to return a little bit later?

Beastro · #**1500** 10-19-2014, 05:29 AM

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Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so youre thinking one of the most well known and recognized ironborn just snuck on to pyke unnoticed, and just gave him a shove, then snuck out, only to return a little bit later?

No, but was the one which hired the person who did.

This prophecy is pretty self-explanatory:

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"I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings."