DKP

[-Catherin-]

The Monday/Tuesday spawn cycle has literally killed my attendance by about 50% but Im still able to hang in there. And since we are on the subject of how much DKP? Here's my last month. Note that only one item exceeded (or even came close to) this 800 whatever. And that I also have a habit on spending a lot on something i really want. (the ring was an all in dkp bid.) From my long experience other than the ring you can get the rest of these amounts with a solid week of raiding. (no tracking at all.) This stands up to the test showing how much DKP Cecily already had in her short time with us. With only about a 25% attendance rate. In fact i believe most of these bids i made were all in. So it really shows it is not that hard to achieve even for me. Ive had stellar attendance in the past but the Monday/Tuesdays spawns have taken me down to 15%.

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As far as the DKP goes it is only natural that a recruit doesnt bid in the first round with full mains because you don't want to hand things to someone who may not end up working out. I think this case shows why it is a good idea.

To Cecily,
I never had a personal issue with you. You supported me when the rest of your guild (TMO) was doing everything they could think of to tear me down. Unless that was some huge meta-troll i still really appreciate it. But you made your decision going clearly against the Awakened way during your app period and there was an overwhelming call to end it. Regardless of how anyone feels about the situation (I hate Chardok AoE too and always turn down invites to chanter stun) ...It is what it is.

Enough to the point that you would not even have needed to count an officer's vote to still exceed what is necessary to vote out an app. I was one of those members. So unlike what you believe, it was not the officers that removed you.

I understand you are clearly upset that you wanted to be in Awakened and your application was denied. But you may want to rethink this crusade you are apparently starting while you have a chance to be accepted into another guild. I believe Aftermath was already off the table since you applied to us because we "are not Aftermath"

As far as the docking of DKP? No RnFing on the forums or in the game. Basically try to be a decent human being or stay out of it.

Bit of a wall of text but will be all I have to say on the subject. Hope it enlightened you on how "our" dkp works and the truth about the rest of the drama.

[bktroost]

Originally Posted by xKoopa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thats the old asgard loot system.. rip

That's been the AG system for close to 3 years.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think that's another issue for new players joining the party late here. There's a bunch of people who've been here for years who haven't changed guilds etc with more amassed DKP than you can imagine.

This issue right here boggles me, and I cannot believe anyone would tolerate it.

During live, the *good* DKP guilds did 2 things to eliminate this very problem:

1) every few months, everyone's DKP points were "adjusted" to encourage spending + prevent discouragement among new members. The adjustment involved decreasing the points of people at the top and increasing the points of (active) players at the bottom, to get a smaller spread of points. So for example: player 1 (a veteran) is at top of DKP and has 1k points, player 2 is new and is at bottom and has only 100. The adjustment would subtract z% from player 1 and add z% to player 2, to make the gap between top and bottom smaller. This method is spread out across the whole (active) roster, so that only the players at the mean (500 dkp) would remain the same. The closer you are to that mean, the less the value of z. See how that works? This adjustment is done every few months, and is *extremely* easy to implement. It is an amazing frustration/drama eliminator

2) Non-active players (ie, those not making the required attendance %) get their DKP frozen and cut by y%, and if they return the points remain frozen until they have completed q# of weeks minimum attendance to unfreeze them. They of course still earn points during this period, just cannot bid. This prevents the problem of piggish veterans just banking mega-points and then logging on only when they want an item.


A DKP guild without this adjustment/freezing system is playing its new members for suckers.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This issue right here boggles me, and I cannot believe anyone would tolerate it.

During live, the *good* DKP guilds did 2 things to eliminate this very problem:

1) every few months, everyone's DKP points were "adjusted" to encourage spending + prevent discouragement among new members. The adjustment involved decreasing the points of people at the top and increasing the points of (active) players at the bottom, to get a smaller spread of points. So for example: player 1 (a veteran) is at top of DKP and has 1k points, player 2 is new and is at bottom and has only 100. The adjustment would subtract z% from player 1 and add z% to player 2, to make the gap between top and bottom smaller. This method is spread out across the whole (active) roster, so that only the players at the mean (500 dkp) would remain the same. The closer you are to that mean, the less the value of z. See how that works? This adjustment is done every few months, and is *extremely* easy to implement. It is an amazing frustration/drama eliminator

2) Non-active players (ie, those not making the required attendance %) get their DKP frozen and cut by y%, and if they return the points remain frozen until they have completed q# of weeks minimum attendance to unfreeze them. They of course still earn points during this period, just cannot bid. This prevents the problem of piggish veterans just banking mega-points and then logging on only when they want an item.


A DKP guild without this adjustment/freezing system is playing its new members for suckers.

Makes a lot of sense honestly, but not every guild wants a system where if they take a break they're going to get hit in their dkp.

If I were guild hunting at this point I wouldn't want a well stacked DKP system where I'd have to put 50+ raiding hours in to have the chance of bidding on something that's going to be popular (for example: a vindi BP)

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Makes a lot of sense honestly, but not every guild veteran wants a system where if they take a break they're going to get hit in their dkp.

If I were guild hunting at this point I wouldn't want a well stacked DKP system where I'd have to put 50+ raiding hours in to have the chance of bidding on something that's going to be popular (for example: a vindi BP)

fixed it. the issue requires the GL or officers to simply say, this is how it is going to be. Keep in mind, the adjustment system does nothing to the actual rankings. If you were number 1, you still will be. Just not by a gazillion points. Spend those points, and if you take a break, don't expect to be able to pop back in and take a spot at the head of a line just because you were awesome 6 months ago. Deal with it.

Really, any dkp guild that does not use this system is gulling its new members.

[Thulack]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

fixed it. the issue requires the GL or officers to simply say, this is how it is going to be. Keep in mind, the adjustment system does nothing to the actual rankings. If you were number 1, you still will be. Just not by a gazillion points. Spend those points, and if you take a break, don't expect to be able to pop back in and take a spot at the head of a line just because you were awesome 6 months ago. Deal with it.

Really, any dkp guild that does not use this system is gulling its new members.

See the thing is with a bidding system like Awakened has in that its blind bidding people overspend(as in bid much higher then 2nd place) regularly for items. This helps keep the dkp at reasonable levels. You want a nice item you bid or go home. So every raid there was a good portion of DKP that was spent that might not have been with a system like 2nd highest+1 is winner.

[Expediency]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This issue right here boggles me, and I cannot believe anyone would tolerate it.

During live, the *good* DKP guilds did 2 things to eliminate this very problem:

1) every few months, everyone's DKP points were "adjusted" to encourage spending + prevent discouragement among new members. The adjustment involved decreasing the points of people at the top and increasing the points of (active) players at the bottom, to get a smaller spread of points. So for example: player 1 (a veteran) is at top of DKP and has 1k points, player 2 is new and is at bottom and has only 100. The adjustment would subtract z% from player 1 and add z% to player 2, to make the gap between top and bottom smaller. This method is spread out across the whole (active) roster, so that only the players at the mean (500 dkp) would remain the same. The closer you are to that mean, the less the value of z. See how that works? This adjustment is done every few months, and is *extremely* easy to implement. It is an amazing frustration/drama eliminator

Are you kidding? Why would anyone tolerate this? Whats the point of keeping DKP at all if you're just going to redistribute them every few months? Some guy comes and does all the heavy lifting and earns 4x as much DKP as another player, then you swoop in and "adjust" it by handing his hard earned points to a person who does far less. If I was in a guild that penalized me in this way, I would leave immediately. There is zero reason to get your DKP above the average since you're just going to lose it. Its a race to the bottom.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Expediency [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you kidding? Why would anyone tolerate this? Whats the point of keeping DKP at all if you're just going to redistribute them every few months? Some guy comes and does all the heavy lifting and earns 4x as much DKP as another player, then you swoop in and "adjust" it by handing his hard earned points to a person who does far less. If I was in a guild that penalized me in this way, I would leave immediately. There is zero reason to get your DKP above the average since you're just going to lose it. Its a race to the bottom.

you are very bad at math. Or reading.

The adjustments only apply to active players. Which means, the newer player with low dkp is currently doing approx. as much as the high dkp veteran.

And, one never loses one's ranking. But look, if you are not going to try to understand the system I laid out, well, this is a waste of my time.

I think you are just trying to protect a system that ensures senior members always will have a huge dkp lead. An adjustment system does not allow that kind of cushy setup.

[Expediency]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The adjustments only apply to active players. Which means, the newer player with low dkp is currently doing approx. as much as the high dkp veteran.

And, one never loses one's ranking. But look, if you are not going to try to understand the system I laid out, well, this is a waste of my time.

Sounds like a dodge to me. The way you wrote it sure sounds like you're redistributing points and calling it an "adjustment"

"The adjustment involved decreasing the points of people at the top and increasing the points of (active) players at the bottom, to get a smaller spread of points."

So both of us join a guild at the same time, I get 1000 dkp, you get 100, the average of that period for everyone is 500, so one guy loses some and the other guy gains some so they are both closer to 500?

Set me straight, because that sounds like a straight up con

[Expediency]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2) Non-active players (ie, those not making the required attendance %) get their DKP frozen and cut by y%, and if they return the points remain frozen until they have completed q# of weeks minimum attendance to unfreeze them. They of course still earn points during this period, just cannot bid. This prevents the problem of piggish veterans just banking mega-points and then logging on only when they want an item.

At least this is a blanket application, instead of an adjustment based on success. Still, its dumb, because the heavy hitters in the guild didnt just spring up out of nowhere. They worked over time to help the guild grow, and once they obtain a BiS item, you will never have to compete with them again for that item slot but you still benefit from what they bring to the table every raid. It sounds like your agenda is to take advantage of people who play all the time and not give them credit where credit is due. Nothing is stopping you from being at the top of the DKP charts, just play a few years 24/7 like they did.