ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by AenorVZ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's one of my issues with the series. In his zeal to break the good guys always win trope, GRRM made the Starks too stupid to be believable.

Ned was an honorable soldier. I agree that Ned and Cat symbolize the idyllic world (simplified Tolkien-esque) that Martin wanted to kill, but Ned didn't have enough time to learn how to maneuver in KL. I mean honestly, who wouldn't lose a game of 4D chess to Baelish? Ned fucked up when he didn't listen to Renly, but Sansa ultimately fucked him by talking to Cersei. Ned's soldier's honor got him, but he'll always be my favorite (<3 Sean Bean). Plus, I don't think he ever understood what colossal pieces of shit he was dealing with. I don't think that's bad writing on martin's end.

The best part about the Stark family is that Arya is the most ruthless character in the books and she's gonna fuck some people up. Where the fuck are the winds of winter

I'm gonna start my 4th reread here soon. Even talking about this I love hating Jaime in book 1 and then being like wow this guy isn't such a dick after all. That said, I'm assuming you've read the books more than once and yeah, on a re-read the stupidity of the Starks is painful. Honestly though, Jon's decision making is the dumbest IMO. Run the watch like a dictator and force people to kill you because they believe you're destroying their life's work without even taking the time to explain it to them. Great job Jon!

[Sage Truthbearer]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm gonna start my 4th reread here soon. Even talking about this I love hating Jaime in book 1 and then being like wow this guy isn't such a dick after all.

Jaime's character arc is one of my favorite aspects of the series. From general douche bag, Kingslayer and child-crippler, to being one of the most redeeming characters in the entire series based purely on character development. And I think you could see there was some goodness in him even in book 1, because he's always been the only Lannister that has ever had any empathy for Tyrion.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Patriam1066 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ned was an honorable soldier. I agree that Ned and Cat symbolize the idyllic world (simplified Tolkien-esque) that Martin wanted to kill, but Ned didn't have enough time to learn how to maneuver in KL. I mean honestly, who wouldn't lose a game of 4D chess to Baelish? Ned fucked up when he didn't listen to Renly, but Sansa ultimately fucked him by talking to Cersei. Ned's soldier's honor got him, but he'll always be my favorite (<3 Sean Bean). Plus, I don't think he ever understood what colossal pieces of shit he was dealing with. I don't think that's bad writing on martin's end.

The best part about the Stark family is that Arya is the most ruthless character in the books and she's gonna fuck some people up. Where the fuck are the winds of winter

I'm gonna start my 4th reread here soon. Even talking about this I love hating Jaime in book 1 and then being like wow this guy isn't such a dick after all. That said, I'm assuming you've read the books more than once and yeah, on a re-read the stupidity of the Starks is painful. Honestly though, Jon's decision making is the dumbest IMO. Run the watch like a dictator and force people to kill you because they believe you're destroying their life's work without even taking the time to explain it to them. Great job Jon!

honorable yes, but also dumb. To add to what you said, surely I don't blame Ned. Nothing in his life could have prepared him for dealing in KL. But he regardless, he still made poor decisions and should have realized how over his head he was, or realized how bad of a position he was in. I think it was great writing, I just think Ned was an idiot and Cat was the worst. but both are wonderfully well written characters.

Arya is fun, but i just don't see how she goes back to living a normal life as a Stark girl. I dont expect her to die, but im not convinced she will just resume her expected role in society as a daughter of Winterfell and live happily ever after.

for extra fun, try a linear re-read, make things a little bit more interesting when you are reading the chapters chronologically versus how they are presented to us in the books [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]